|
Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 19:30:26 GMT -5
Lancer, I understand your point. Age does not determine maturity.
The point I'm making is an argument for the under 18 community. This type of training is not strictly for those under 18, but for all those who want to learn. The invitation is there for all. As I said before, education is the key.
|
|
Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
|
Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 19:37:56 GMT -5
I think it might be best to leave your son at home for this kind of game. It's not like there wouldn't be other chances to play for him. He'd just have to sit out one weekend. One common aspect that all of the big milsim games share is an age limit of 18 years. A big part of playing in a true milsim event is playing with people who could legally join the military. I apologize to dig up a quote from the first page, but why is this Knief? Shouldn't there be equal playing time for everyone in the age range to airsoft? I'm not trying to flame you, but I see here a shoddy reason why. Once again, age doesn't determine maturity. If the son/teenager shows maturity in the field, and acts properly in a milsim environment, then why would you NOT let him play? I understand the point that you are not trying to oust the entire under 18 crowd from airsoft, but you are barring them from milsim. I myself would like to try a milsim game and I have a feeling that I will like it better than paintsoft. The problem I have is that you are judging the entire minor crowd by a few dumbasses mistakes/styles of play. Yeah, it sucks, but knief is right. Were I to throw a milsim event, it would be 18+ pretty firm, unless I *really* know the person in question. Moreso for the fact that... well... I don't want to be playing milsim with a bunch of 16 year olds. Tali, why is this? I understand that you believe that airsoft is an 18+ sport, but I feel differently. Like I've been saying, age doesn't determine maturity and I think that that should make MILSIM events have 18+ with exceptions. I'm pretty much repeating myself with what I replied to Knief.
|
|
|
Post by O'Dwah on May 18, 2008 19:46:42 GMT -5
I think it might be best to leave your son at home for this kind of game. It's not like there wouldn't be other chances to play for him. He'd just have to sit out one weekend. One common aspect that all of the big milsim games share is an age limit of 18 years. A big part of playing in a true milsim event is playing with people who could legally join the military. I apologize to dig up a quote from the first page, but why is this Knief? Shouldn't there be equal playing time for everyone in the age range to airsoft? I'm not trying to flame you, but I see here a shoddy reason why. Once again, age doesn't determine maturity. If the son/teenager shows maturity in the field, and acts properly in a milsim environment, then why would you NOT let him play? Liability, which is why a lot of the older teams don't play much anymore, they rather not have to deal with the fact that if they injure somebody, they have to deal with the fact that they're a minor. It's a lot easier to have liability with an adult, than someone who is under 18.
|
|
Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
|
Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 19:50:24 GMT -5
I apologize to dig up a quote from the first page, but why is this Knief? Shouldn't there be equal playing time for everyone in the age range to airsoft? I'm not trying to flame you, but I see here a shoddy reason why. Once again, age doesn't determine maturity. If the son/teenager shows maturity in the field, and acts properly in a milsim environment, then why would you NOT let him play? Liability, which is why a lot of the older teams don't play much anymore, they rather not have to deal with the fact that if they injure somebody, they have to deal with the fact that they're a minor. It's a lot easier to have liability with an adult, than someone who is under 18. There isn't much to liability, if I am thinking right, as soon as you sign a waiver you cannot hold the event holder liable for your actions. If I go running down a hill and fall face first into a tree and break 3 of my teeth, who's' fault is that? Mine, for running down the hill. Same thing for an adult.
|
|
|
Post by O'Dwah on May 18, 2008 20:02:58 GMT -5
Liability, which is why a lot of the older teams don't play much anymore, they rather not have to deal with the fact that if they injure somebody, they have to deal with the fact that they're a minor. It's a lot easier to have liability with an adult, than someone who is under 18. There isn't much to liability, if I am thinking right, as soon as you sign a waiver you cannot hold the event holder liable for your actions. If I go running down a hill and fall face first into a tree and break 3 of my teeth, who's' fault is that? Mine, for running down the hill. Same thing for an adult. Waivers really don't do anything, they're kind of just there as a safety net. If I signed a waiver, and I died, you damn well should know that my parents are going after the event hosts.
|
|
|
Post by Mosin on May 18, 2008 20:05:25 GMT -5
Shit.. If anything happened, then they'd come after you.
It's honestly so easy to get around waivers, it's like "Why waste pen ink & paper?"
But I guess with the person being 18 they fight for themselves in any sort of injury thing, and you don't have to deal with some ill-informed parent who really thought that you were playing paintball all along and had no idea about the sport and yet feels the urge to yell at you for no reason.
|
|
Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
|
Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 20:09:10 GMT -5
I guess I just based my opinion off my parents. If they were informed of the situation and it was clearly my wrongdoing, they would deem it my fault and not take legal action. I cannot say the same for someone else's parents.
But what exactly makes MILSIM so much more restricted that regular games? Tell me the psychological/physical difficulties that MILSIM will put on me that regular games won't. No difference, except more walking/running and less target engagement. All MILSIM is, is airsoft with more restrictions and limits. I still fail to see where and why MILSIM will put enough physical/psychological pain or discomfort where I will not be able to handle it before the age of 18. If I wanted to shoot targets 24/7 I would have joined paintball. Why did I join airsoft? To get the MILSIM ASPECT of the sport.
|
|
|
Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 20:23:00 GMT -5
Liability is a huge concern for all organizers. Insurance is available for organizers. Last time I looked at it, it was only about $20 more to add ages 14 and up. That was a few years ago, so it has probably increased.
Waivers are the first step in any event. The waiver I have, was written by a lawyer. The language I was using was not strong enough and could be dismantled by a decent attorney. While all waivers have a "hold harmless" clause, most civil courts would probably award damages if someone challenged it in court. The waiver, for minors, is a permission slip in essence. The best thing to do is have the parents sign it in front of you. That way they know exactly what their child is doing.
"Why waste pen and ink?" It's the first step in the process. It lets everyone know that you are serious and are trying to take the proper precautions with your event. Another good thing is to have someone who is trained in first aid (MFR, Paramedic, Combat Life Saver) at the event. It helps ease the mind of the those parents who may be apprehensive.
Also, let the local law enforcement agencies know what is going on. Most, if not all, OP's take place on private property. Letting them know about it saves on them coming out if someone calls 911. It's always good to keep them in the loop!
|
|
|
Post by Яoman on May 18, 2008 20:36:36 GMT -5
Paintsoft is inevitable thanks to marketing.
Thats why we have OPs. So they can learn form there mistakes and the actions of others. Why go out of our way to fix their problem? Some arent willing to learn so why be willing to preach to no one?
The age requirements are set on milsims because if they havnt learned from previous sessions maybe making things more exclusive will motivate them to learn better behavior.
This is how I feel about the subject is all.
|
|
Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
|
Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 20:39:09 GMT -5
Rabbit, what I'm saying is, why does everyone NOT want to give them a chance? What's so bad about giving the 15 year old with a perfectly fine AEG a chance to play what airsoft is all about?
|
|
|
Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 20:42:19 GMT -5
Paintsoft is inevitable thanks to marketing. Thats why we have OPs. So they can learn form there mistakes and the actions of others. Why go out of our way to fix their problem? Some arent willing to learn so why be willing to preach to no one? The age requirements are set on milsims because if they havnt learned from previous sessions maybe making things more exclusive will motivate them to learn better behavior. This is how I feel about the subject is all. While you are entitled to your opinion, how can people learn if they are not able to attend an event? You are excluding people based on the actions of a few, which is inherently wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Talisman on May 19, 2008 5:31:37 GMT -5
Do a search guys, this topic has been discussed so many times re-reading it again is making my head want to explode.
Lancer, it's less about liability, less about people being mature, as it is about getting rid of *most* of the immature people. Yes, you can argue that there are people under 18 that are mature, however, it's a vast minority, and by eliminating everyone under 18 you eliminate the majority. Unfortunately, you also eliminate the minority, but that's why there is "exceptions".
Rabbit hits it on the head, actually. If a player sees that they can't go to an op that's going to be great because they're under 18, they're going to work that much harder to be responsible, hard working, cool, honorable, mature, whatever, so that they can get invited to the next. And that's a win-win. End of discussion.
|
|
|
Post by DevilDog on May 19, 2008 7:01:50 GMT -5
Wow.. The almighty Tali speaks... Typical crap from the MiA forum.. As I said before, the narrow mindedness of this board will never change...
Ban me for having an opinion.. I guess yours is the only one that matters....
And Zorak said I was being non productive.... Guess this is the kind of productivity that is acceptable.
|
|
|
Post by Thor on May 19, 2008 9:12:03 GMT -5
DevilDog, Talisman makes a valid point. Whatever beef you have with him from your MTASC crap is your business, but he hasn't said anything that hasn't been echoed by other members on this forum. There's nothing wrong with having a few ops now and then that are just for the older crowd. I personally get sick of going to a game where all the people are a foot shorter and half a decade or more younger than me. And I don't play that much as it is, but I'd go to a good 18+ milsim op.
|
|
|
Post by Jumprefusal on May 19, 2008 9:46:46 GMT -5
Wow that was way uncalled for. Paul take your anger to PMs, otherwise we're going to have to ban you for turning things sour. Tali didn't even mention your name, he just stated his opinion and experiences from the past.
|
|