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Post by Tex on May 10, 2008 23:29:53 GMT -5
Tex : If you run a GOOD milsim op, with good objectives, decent props (they dont have to be great - ACO ran some damned good games and their objectives weren't 1,000$ boxes and shit), and enough land to pull it off, you could easily charge 30-40 bucks, because people would pay. I know that if I had the option of going to a "real" op, like "the old days", for 40 bucks, or going to a huge 150128690 person op for 20 bucks, I'll pay more for the smaller game any day. Over the last 2 years, I've had to adapt my play style dramatically to account for this change in the overall game in michigan. I miss the old mil-sim days, with a passion. Munin, odd that you mention GK not being around a whole lot. Talon and I, while fishing this morning, had a rather long discussion about why you guys weren't around a whole lot =D I would absolutely love to do this. And I have the perfect story line for it. And I wouldn't mind only making it a 40 person OP, but I just cannot seem to find 40 people who would actually come out and play and pay the $40 for it. Black Eagle will be a low cost OP in the fall, it's set at $15 right now, and a player capacity of 60. Also requiring people to prepay in hopes of actually getting 100% attendance and none of this 40% of people who signed up, show up. I feel very strongly about a Mil Sim OP in Michigan, and really think that we need at LEAST 1 a year. I'm sick of these Rec Games all the time, I now go to "ops" more for the time with friends, and much less for the actual playing of the game. Seems it's getting more and more paintballish as the time goes on.
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Post by Talisman on May 10, 2008 23:44:22 GMT -5
I agree.
We asshats are working on some "guidelines", if you will. Expect a nice little helper for all you milsim wannabes out there =)
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Post by SGT. Darcness on May 11, 2008 0:23:16 GMT -5
Please see my post in the original thread that started this.
While I don't want to cause any drama, I feel I had some valid points regarding this. I myself am all for Milsim events and would love to have that option if I so choose.
However, I just hope everyone understand why I have the concerns I do, and realize that Milsim and regular OPs (and Rec games) can co-exist successfully.
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Post by Relarz on May 11, 2008 1:59:57 GMT -5
A rec game is a rec game. An OP is supposed to be milsim, hence why it is called an "Operation", as opposed to a "game".
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Post by SGT. Darcness on May 11, 2008 2:34:27 GMT -5
Yes, but Milsim is a word that is thrown around too loosely. I'm pretty sure that's why this discussion is here. In all honesty, I don't think I've attended many, if any Milsim events myself. Not because of my choice, but because a vast majority of OP's don't classify as true Milsim.
I think ideally there should be true Milsim, OP, and Rec game designations. This will give the player choices on what type of event to play at, as well as give the field owners more options. This should also give field owners something to talk about and come up with options for pricing and defining exactly what each type of game entails. Almost like a guideline for each type. That way confusion will be down and player satisfaction will be up.
Think about it. If you attend a Rec game, you expect it to be a loosely run, trigger time type game. An OP is SUPPOSED to be Milsim, but rarely turns out as such. Therefore, all this argument about OP's really being glorified Rec games. If we have 3 distinct types of events, Milsim, OP, and Rec, we can quantify each. That way the player knows what to expect before even attending any given event.
Milsim = strictly run, lots of rules, high realism. OP = set objectives, simple rules, medium realism. Rec = no set rules, no set objectives, run and gun realism.
Seems like it would work to me. Again, I'm just trying to offer up some help.
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Exodus
New Member
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Post by Exodus on May 11, 2008 2:40:11 GMT -5
I myself would like to try and attend a strictly Milsim game. I feel that there need to be more milsim games rather than 235906123325 rec games or badly organized. Granted, that I might want to attend a few regular games before a milsim op, but I'd be down if it was the right distance away or I have enough incentives to come.
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Post by Talisman on May 11, 2008 8:30:01 GMT -5
The biggest problem, hands-down that I've seen, is people just don't have land for most milsim games. You could, realistically, do a hell of a milsim game at SFOD, except they have to have 235906123325 people on the field at once. Keep the player cap low, or increase your land. Milsim games should be like, 20-30% trigger time, 80-70% sneaky/maneuver/objective/whatever time.
That's my biggest gripe. I enjoy intense firefights. I do not enjoy being able to see enemy 100% of the time.
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Post by operatordoc01 on May 11, 2008 8:35:54 GMT -5
There is some planning at this time that MOA is working on for a More MilSim approach. We are in the very basic planning phase as of this time, and We hope we can get this Milsim Event kicked off for the fall, before it gets to cold again.
MOA got a lot of great feedback from the players that attended RT2 and we are going to be putting it in good use for our future events.
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Post by Kurt 19D on May 11, 2008 8:54:44 GMT -5
I would also be very interested in attending a milsim event. However will there be a selection process for those that get to attend? The reason I ask is I play with my son. We have been playing airsoft for about a year now. I have no hesitation about pre-paying for an event. My apprehension would be if my son was not not tactical enough would he be given a hard time? I would hate for one event to ruin his interest if he was chastised for making too much noise or not being concealed well enough.
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Post by Knief on May 11, 2008 9:03:01 GMT -5
I think it might be best to leave your son at home for this kind of game. It's not like there wouldn't be other chances to play for him. He'd just have to sit out one weekend. One common aspect that all of the big milsim games share is an age limit of 18 years. A big part of playing in a true milsim event is playing with people who could legally join the military.
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Post by theactionman on May 11, 2008 9:09:12 GMT -5
I hope of course some exceptions could be made to any age limits.
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Post by Talisman on May 11, 2008 9:10:59 GMT -5
Yeah, it sucks, but knief is right. Were I to throw a milsim event, it would be 18+ pretty firm, unless I *really* know the person in question. Moreso for the fact that... well... I don't want to be playing milsim with a bunch of 16 year olds.
Edit by tali : Woot I'm a double posting boob.
Actionman, do a search of age limits on MiA sometime when you're bored... extend the time for like the last 3-4 years. We've had HUGE amounts of discussion of that very issue in the past =)
And now that we've caved and lowered age limits... look at what we're discussing =)
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Post by theactionman on May 11, 2008 10:16:20 GMT -5
We also used to have slavery, having something in the past isn't a justification to have it in the present. Age can be a good indicator of maturity but there are always exceptions. Ask anyone who has played with me (I've played most MIA games since Futureball) including many of your fellow asshats, I would like to believe myself an exception to this maturity rule.
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Post by Knief on May 11, 2008 10:28:30 GMT -5
That wasn't his point, theactionman. Tali was trying to say that when most events had an 18+ age limit, we never had people trying to get more milsim ops because they all ran like milsim ops. They weren't on the scale of Lion Claws events, but they were still milsim. You could go an hour or two before you even engaged the enemy. People followed their objectives, set up real ambushes, and just generally played the game a lot less like paintsoft. We also never had people complaining that airsoft was getting boring because every event is a big shootout. Games really were better back in the day of 18+ age limits.
But I've said this before: Just because one or two games are 18+ doesn't mean that the younger crowd is suddenly ousted from airsoft in Michigan. Any time age limits come up, the kids bitch like we're telling them they'll never get into a game until they're an adult. In reality, there'll be a game the next weekend that lets you play. Give us our adult swim and we won't be so aggitated about playing with you at the other events.
But as it stands, there are no games for adults in Michigan. I'd love for somebody to come along and host a couple. They don't even need to be structed like a milsim event. I can almost garuntee that they'll flow that way, though, because that's what always happens when you leave the kids out of the mix.
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Post by theactionman on May 11, 2008 10:42:49 GMT -5
Yeah I guess theres really no point to arguing this now, as there aren't any 18+ games. Also knief could you not write so concisely in the future, it makes it hard to argue against you...
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