Not so hot

[mactruc]

I have been dealing off and on with Young for a LONG time. Bought my first paintball gun there in the late 90's. And even some airsoft about a year ago. Things haven't changed. I walked in the door and nobody greeted me. I waited at the counter... nothing. The man at the end of the counter was talking to a friend about the new Rambo movie and ignored me while the owner worked with a customer. Then, the "friend" who turns out, plows the parking lot, Young and the man behind the counter had a conversation about what parts the owner needed to fix his car. I waited and waited and waited. Walked down to the end of the counter where someone was hiding behind a box eating lunch. Told me he couldn't help me, "his boss had to do it" I had to walk up to the owner directly to ask for help. Owner told me the marker I was looking at was new and he wanted $200 for it. I left a little upset over waiting for 15 minutes to get any sort of help.

Returned later to look at marker again. Guy at the end of the counter was on the computer and was talking about how he "stole another picture from some website". Owner was with some people, so I waited while the other guy stole pictures. When Young was free I was able to get the marker off the wall to look at it. Then I noticed marker was NOT new, but used. Scratched up and still dirty from the previous owner. Moral there, be careful, they are more than happy to sell used paintball as new, why not airsfot? I then left upset over the whole deal. This was today.

Rewind a year

I purchased a GBB from Youngs. I have since sold it. After a week, I came back to young. The slide had cracked (shame on me for getting a plastic slide). Young said I had broken it by throwing it and he would do nothing but sell me a new gun. I tacked down the number of the company that manufactured it. The service rep that I talked to told me that the place of purchase should have taken care of the problem, but they agreed to fix it for me, at the cost of shipping of course.

Rewind 5 years

No real problems then actually. Only issue then was getting someone to notice me. I would be ignored while the "older" people would be helped when they walked in the door. Or the ones that had cash in their hand.

Overall, I have NEVER had a good experience through them and would not send anyone I know there. Service is poor, and the stealing of images from other sites is.. well.. lame. The customer service was terrible and the guy at the end of the counter was anything but helpful. When I did ask him about Airsoft he was worried more about his computer screen than helping me.

[Thor]

Wow, guy makes an account just to rip on Young's, then deletes it. Someone's got some issues.

[Mactruc]

Guest account, not a deleted one. I just couldn't sit by and watch all these words of good stuff while just today I was ignored for a lunch and lied to about the condition of product they were selling as new. Not to mention the stealing of pictures, the laziness of the counter help. I work sales for a living. If I am eating lunch and a customer walks in... guess which thing is more important? I would rather have cold food than miss a sale

[Ice]

Thats the beauty of the American economy. Any consumer can say what he wants about whoever.
If he was treated like this, I see no reason for him to come on here and tell about his account. In the end it will be up to Young's to resolve these issues. I for one don't really care, but hey if your not going to get customer service in a store, then your better off going online even more so.

[Thor]

My mistake about your account, I thought guest posting had been disabled on MIA. However, I will say one thing and then bow out of this discussion. Yong has, at times, had issues with customers. However, I think this is due mostly to cultural/language boundaries, and not because he's a bad man. He's always been fair to me. And as far as kdogg goes, he knows his stuff and is very helpful most of the time. I've never had any problem with him either. I will say this though, as far as airsoft sales go, I think they do a bit more business online than in store, so I can't say I'd blame him if he put more work into their site. Having worked in retail myself, I will say this: you can't please everyone. I've had customers that would probably have some very nasty things to say about me, but I have just as many or more that would sing nothing but praises. I suggest that if you feel you were mistreated in the store today, let kdogg know politely. He's a good guy, I'm sure he didn't rub you the wrong way on purpose.

[mactruc]

I will talk to Kdogg directly about the situation directly and see what we can work out. This was not a language barrier, I have worked with him for about 3 years when I was heavy into paintball. From here on out I will deal with Kdogg directly and, once the situation is resolved on the status of new vs used, withdraw my previous comments completely.

I hope we can resolve this as I can help them sell off at least 3 of their markers; If the idea of new VS used and pricing can be adjusted. I assume I can contact Kdogg from empireairsoft website directly?

[Tex]

Young is a stingy bastard. He is a money hungry disgrace to small business owners. Go up to GR to the Youngs there if you want good service, the guy running it actually has his head on straight. As for Kdogg, he has no say in anything, he just works there. Young is a stubborn old fart and will not even offer for people to pick up airsoft items in the store if they order them online (because things online are 2-3 dollars cheaper.

He can do it because he's the only Army Surplus/Airsoft storefront around the Kzoo, wonderful what a monopoly can do for a guy, isn't it?

[Flipper]

I have to admit, my experience with Kdogg and Empire/Youngs wasn't a good one. That and the fact that my friend bought an Echo1 M733 from there, got it and parts were missing and never replaced, even after I took the gun down there. I do have to give credit, Kdogg was right about the battery.

I did buy the JLS FN2000 from him, but he kept walking away from me, I wanted to check out a few other guns while I was there but he didn't seam to be to eager to make a sale. I then went to the Youngs in GR and had a WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better experience.

[kdogg]

You know what cracks me up? When people run there fucking mouths and have no real clue what they are talking about.

You my friend, are stupid. Omg it was used oooooo...

BIG ASS SIGN NEON SIGN in the window that flashes BUY/SELL/TRADE! We sell NEW and USED paintball and Airsoft guns.

What do you think the chances are that we may actually HAVE some new and used stuff on the wall? Oh gee I don't know the fact the gun was up at the top with no price tag maybe?

Also, I should apologize for taking a lunch break and talking to one of our friends who was about to run to pick up car parts for my bosses broken down car so he could actually DRIVE home. How dare I do such a thing right?

All this is about is the fact my boss wouldn't give you a better price on that gun. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh and yes, I admit. I "stole" some pictures from another site. I stole some pictures from echo1usa.com so I wouldnt have to setup the green screen, and spend half the day editing pictures. Someone arrest me. Oh wait, ECHO 1 allows there dealers to use there own pictures, thats right. How could I forget that. Excuse me for using the word "stole" so loosely. I forget some people are slow and take things literally.

Next time you want to talk shit and try to make someone look bad, maybe sure you have a clue please.

cgyarring said:

Young is a stingy bastard. He is a money hungry disgrace to small business owners. Go up to GR to the Youngs there if you want good service, the guy running it actually has his head on straight. As for Kdogg, he has no say in anything, he just works there. Young is a stubborn old fart and will not even offer for people to pick up airsoft items in the store if they order them online (because things online are 2-3 dollars cheaper.

He can do it because he's the only Army Surplus/Airsoft storefront around the Kzoo, wonderful what a monopoly can do for a guy, isn't it?

Tex is correct. I just work here. I have no real say in much of anything my boss does.

One thing though Tex, I still take it personally when you slam our store online.

Business 101, as someone who works for one retailer, you NEVER publicly slam another retailer because it only makes you look bad. One might think the person talking shit is just saying to try to get more business. Know what I mean? Now get over here and hug me.

agentoforin said:

I have to admit, my experience with Kdogg and Empire/Youngs wasn't a good one. That and the fact that my friend bought an Echo1 M733 from there, got it and parts were missing and never replaced, even after I took the gun down there. I do have to give credit, Kdogg was right about the battery.

I did buy the JLS FN2000 from him, but he kept walking away from me, I wanted to check out a few other guns while I was there but he didn't seam to be to eager to make a sale. I then went to the Youngs in GR and had a WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better experience.

Actually we DID replace the parts. Get the story straight. We called ECHO 1, asked for replacement parts and they sent us the parts from the ECHO 1 M4. I was later told they did NOT fit correctly at which point I called ECHO 1 again and was told that was all they had for replacement parts for that gun.

Actually someone else had that exact same problem on this forum. They got the M733 and something was wrong with the grips, missing, broken, something. Anyway ECHO 1 sent them M4 grip which again, those did not fit.

This doesn't have anything to do with us directly, ECHO 1 simply didn't have the proper parts available at the time.

This was also not the only ECHO 1 gun we received like this. I had an AK missing a front sight and an M14 missing a front hand guard clip.

There is a whole thread about ECHO 1 guns missing parts somewhere here on MIA.

What you people fail to take into account is that I'm running this WHOLE show by myself. I handle ALL the in-store retail sales. I handle all the online sales which includes taking orders, processing orders, talking on the phone to both take orders, give tech support, and listen to complaints. I package all the shipments, I take all the shipments to both UPS and USPS in my own car. I manage the whole webpage, I code the whole webpage other then the base code, I make all the logos, take most of the pictures. I do ALL the ordering for airsoft products and I even go to the trade shows out in Vegas.

I do the best I can on my own. I don't think you guys understand how big Empire Airsoft is now. Our local business is small but we are shipping TONS of stuff. We ship all over the world. Russia, Germany, Finland, Korea, Poland, Kazakhstan, France, the UK, the list could go on and on.

Yong fired both Gene and Jason leaving me with no one to help package.

Guess what, I can't do everything at once and I'm sorry if I like to actually take a lunch break sometimes.

Rant over.

[Knief]

kdogg,

Chill the fuck out man. Maybe if you didn't have this attitude, you wouldn't have an upset customer complaining about your poor service.

I don't think he's complaining that you sell used guns. Rather, he's upset that the owner himself told him that the gun he was looking at was new when it was clearly used. I'd be really pissed if the owner was trying to pass off an obviously used gun to me as well. Even if he was just mistaken, you have to realize that that looks like a scam.

I've worked retail since I was 14. That's about 7 years there. I can't remember one time when a conversation, even about getting the boss home that night, was more important than helping a customer. I remember a few times when I blew off a customer because I didn't like him, and that customer had every right to get pissed. And had there been a forum dedicated to reviewing different Washtenaw County Bakeries, I would have expected him to give my customer service a shitty review. I've also cut my lunch breaks short to help a customer because there were only two clerks on the clock and the other one was busy. Your lunch is going to be there when you get back.

You're completely out of line taking this attitude in public when a customer is disatisfied with your service. This is the same attitude that brought up the negative comments about you that drove you to step away from MiA in the first place. Maybe you ought to think about why people aren't happy when they do business with you.

[kdogg]

jdl9th said:

kdogg,

Chill the fuck out man. Maybe if you didn't have this attitude, you wouldn't have an upset customer complaining about your poor service.

I don't think he's complaining that you sell used guns. Rather, he's upset that the owner himself told him that the gun he was looking at was new when it was clearly used. I'd be really pissed if the owner was trying to pass off an obviously used gun to me as well. Even if he was just mistaken, you have to realize that that looks like a scam.

I've worked retail since I was 14. That's about 7 years there. I can't remember one time when a conversation, even about getting the boss home that night, was more important than helping a customer. I remember a few times when I blew off a customer because I didn't like him, and that customer had every right to get pissed. And had there been a forum dedicated to reviewing different Washtenaw County Bakeries, I would have expected him to give my customer service a shitty review. I've also cut my lunch breaks short to help a customer because there were only two clerks on the clock and the other one was busy. Your lunch is going to be there when you get back.

You're completely out of line taking this attitude in public when a customer is disatisfied with your service. This is the same attitude that brought up the negative comments about you that drove you to step away from MiA in the first place. Maybe you ought to think about why people aren't happy when they do business with you.

Well then, if you worked retail for SO many years, you understand the saying "you cant keep all of the customers happy all the time" very well.

Actually this kid wasn't that bad but he shouldn't be slamming us for things he has no clue what he is talking about. Yes that shit gives me an attitude big time.

Again this is all about the price of the item and him wanting a better deal.

Now, I'm going to go fix my bosses car so he can drive home. Hopefully no one complains about that I have nothing else to say

[mactruc]

I don't know why you have it in your head that I am upset about pricing. Well, I guess I am. YOU ARE SELLING A USED MARKER AS NEW In my experience, doing such things is not just illegal, it is down right dirty. Not to mention, a USED marker usually loses its value, just like a car. And the more scratches and dent's, and in this case DIRT, the lower the value. How can you even begin to justify that this is a good business practice? You seem to be avoiding that issue.

And I do understand new and used. USUALLY you don't keep them together and, according to Michigan law you need to post a price on everything. Not just new, but everything that is for sale to the customer.

Lunch breaks are fine, but it is rude to A) be eating on the sales floor B) ignore your customer's. I didn't get a lunch break today, but I think I will live. And the other day I had to eat a cold burger. Big rule in sales, that I hope you learn.

Also, you mention talking down other stores in retail, its also not a good idea to talk down the customers' interests or issues. You should not have told me how nobody plays paintball, and everyone plays airsoft. You should have just helped me. You also shouldn't swear at customers, either in person OR over the internet. You have for sure lost business and I have no problem showing other people the language you used and telling them of the lack of service.

[kdogg]

I have nothing else to say no where not. The used markers are sold as used markers.

I'm sorry if you can't tell a used marker from a custom built one. Just because some of the markers have custom barrels etc, doesnt mean they are used. Paul, the owners son custom assembles all the non factory guns. Every single one of them is new.

Now for the chrome looking gun you saw, it's a $600~700 dollar marker and we are only asking I think it was $200 or $300 for it. Don't quote me, either way its a GOOD price for that marker.

[Gimpalong]

Regardless of what people may think of the K-Zoo store, the store up in Grand Rapids is great. The tech. there is always willing to help and spend the time to make sure you are happy. I've used that location for close on ten years, and I've never been dissatisified with the level of customer care. Sure, sometimes the tech is not in. Sure, sometimes they don't have that specific part or piece of gear. In the end, however, they are happy to help you with what they do have, and can usually get what you'd like if they don't have it.

In regards to the K-Zoo Youngs, my experience has, on the whole, pretty good. KDogg tried to fix my old version ICS when I brought it in, and worked for over an hour on it while I hovered around anxiously. In the end, he couldn't really quite fix it, but he did return it to the GR store so I wouldn't have to drive back down to K-Zoo to pick it up.

[cqbr]

I know that this thread is old but I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

First off, kdogg is probably the nicest and most helpful guy that I have ever dealt with in a retail store despite what anyone else may say. I bought my Systema from him at a time when Systema USA couldnt fill their orders quick enough to satisfy enough guys in one city, let alone the whole world, and he bent over backwards to get me my order. He is a great guy and continues to help me out with problems whenever I need help.

As far as Yong or Young or whatever his name is. Tex you are right. He is kinda....well, abrasive. Partly because he can't speak english, and partly because he really likes money....I have nothing else to say. But that in no way is kdogg's fault. The boss owns the store and kdogg runs everything else.

I am no way putting in a good word for anyone but I felt compelled to share my good experiences with kdogg since others felt that they should share their bad ones.