I hate to jump in on something that I really don't have anything to do with, but I do have an opinion here.
I'm not affiliated with 21st Century, though I have done some deals with Bill some time back and I've also seen the store and the machine shop(must have been around 2 years ago I think). I on a whole have no problem with 21st or Bill or anything else with them for that matter but I do think your off track with you opinions.
Soundbyte24: I much appreciate that you've been civil in this thread and I hope it stays that way. Any shop no matter whether they fix computer's, car's, or guns(or anything else), needs to be timely unless they mention that there is a huge waiting list(IE custom car shops etc). In all of the above posts I didn't see once listed that 21st had told someone it would be a month or several months in some cases. Had they made that disclosure prior to that amount of time I can understand excuses or even better reasons for the delay. In buisness there is delays and often times things outside of your control though being curtious to a customer by explaining the situation and finding a resolution should always be priority one. Now understand I'm not making accusations as I've not been involved in any of the circumstances posted about above. Though I do think that unless otherwise stated *any* retailer has a responsibility to prompt service irregaurdless of previous commitments and issues. If they do not intend to live up to that responsibility then they should provide adaquet warning to possible customers and make them aware of wait times etc.
As another option they could run a waiting list of sorts that you can bring your equipment in after being on the repair list for a while also to insure you retain control of the property untill the services are to be rendered. Just a thought.
But as I said above I've got no real affiliations just thought I would throw out my opinion, and on that note I hope no one takes that the wrong way but all in all I'm just another person posting a response on a forum so take it for what it is.
xaos - "298,000 yen for a complete gun. How much is that in real money?"
Whatever happend to not turning this into a bash/defend post?
I don't need to be affiliated with them to back them up. I have no idea what gave you that idea.
Do you need to be affiliated with the Patriots to say they're a good team? Do you run around carrying a Patriot's backpack and Patriot's t-shirt and cap? Didn't think so. What about saying that your teacher is a good teacher? They don't pay you to say it, do they? Didn't think so.
Point is, affiliated or not, I'm entitled to an opinion and observations and interpetation of such observations in such a way that I see fit to the topic of this thread.
If I feel they are doing an honest job and someone says otherwise, I will back them up. And if I know about the internal processes or have opinions regarding potential reasons for the problems mentioned, I have the right and potential to share them, and I most certainly will.
And I do believe that me seeing with my own two eyes to be personal "dealings", so I will continue to post my experiences with them as per my aforementioned reasons.
I understand what Zorak is saying quite perfectly, I don't need you to simplify it for me, but thanks for the consideration. It was quite... considerate.
Sorry, but that's just how I plan to deal with these types of issues, and I'd appreciate it if you would stay on topic as well, because nowhere in your post do I even see the mentioning of 21st purchases/sales, or even "excuses" of your own.
I'm done with the bash/defend portion of this topic. You bashed me, I defended. If I bashed you in any way, I take it back. End of story.
EDIT: See? He's not affiliated either! Haha!
I agree, Luke, but as I said, they can only be timely about some of the orders they have. Someone just has to be last. It's just how it works, how it will always work. And if you are that person that's dead last, sorry, but suck it up and better luck next time. But as for the mis-ups with Tooth, no excuse for that, that's just bad tracking. Whether it was an accident or whatever, I'm sure it could have been prevented, but every store has flaws. But on to the waiting list idea. Good point, but I believe that's why they added the $35 charge and instead put you on a waiting list now and schedule you in for when they are ready for you. I suppose that back then when all these purchases took place, maybe a month or two ago, they were still getting used to the new shop or whatever, I don't know honestly, but you're right, they could have been a tad bit more organized. But every store has their flaws... and we as customers just need to deal with it, I suppose.
Last Edit: Jan 18, 2006 23:02:59 GMT -5 by Wheeler
The thing is, soundbyte, 21CA shouldn't be taking anymore orders or anymore repair jobs if they can't get them into the hands of their rightful owners almost immediately. If Bill wants to dip into training and working with machine tools that are unrelated to building parts for his airsoft customers, that's fine. But if they can't let their customer service slip. They have to find a way to balance their time so that toothbrush doesn't have to wait a year and a half to get hear that his gun has been sent to somebody else, and to have it replaced by two sequential guns, neither of which are identical models. That's just ridiculous. Additionally, if they're going to have posted hours, then they need to be open for those hours or unpost them.
Those are just two of the serious problems that have been posted in this thread, and the kind of problems that are unacceptable from any retailer, whether that retailer has anything else going on or not. There is no condition under which having somebody's gun for over a year is acceptable, nor is sending it to somebody else. I don't care if he's training the entire MI law enforcement community and fixing tanks for the army; if he can't fix my gun in two weeks, he needs to tell me that and send it back. Imagine if the glock had been Toothbrush's only gun. He could have been without airsoft for a year and a half. How is that in any way excusable?
You know when I first started airsoft I got pretty close with Bill and his group. I've done almost all of my business with them and it all whent smoothly, but I never bought anything that was out of stock and I always drove there to get it. Now a couple of my teamates ordered parts that need to be shipped to him and that took like 6 months. The thing with the stuff he has to order is that he has to wait untill he gets about $2000 worth of orders before he sends them out. I personnaly didn't like that so whatever I needed that he didn't have in stock I simply ordered from someone else. I personally have nothing agianst Bill, Deb, or James but I do not like Bill's business ethics. His problem is that he jumps head first into everything and gets in as deep as he can and then just drops it as quick as possible. His other problem is he is trying to do too many things at once. (and thats his own fault)
With the repairs he always did have too many. I don't know who he has working for him now that does the repairs but I know the originall 2 or 3 guys quit and fell out of airsoft almost completely. He always had 10-15 guns all that needed to be fixed stacked up in the repair room. Another thing too is I remember being there and someone would call about there gun and he would ask them what they wanted done to the gun, and half the time people said " I don't know make it faster or make it better " and he could never get a straight answer out of them so the gun just sat there.
I don't know if anyone can get anything out of that but there it is.
I'm not going to sit here and teach you guys to read information, because you just can't seem to read what I put in my posts.
So I'm off the topic, it's clear that what I post is not what you want to hear, so it just goes in and out and I get flamed because of it. A few comments and I'm done with this thread. Post what you want, I'm not replying. Heck, my karma can go below -100 for all I care, doesn't matter to me... XD
Lastly, just wanted to point out some information:
As per lucky, a close friend of Bill's, 21st is now a machine shop first, and an airsoft shop and repair shop second now. So, if that changes your attitudes about what I told you, it should, because that means that airsoft and repairs are not a priority, as I told you.
The whole thing with Tooth's gun, I believe the gun was "in-transit", or out of their control. They ship through other people, if stuff gets screwed up, then something else happened that is out of their control, sorry, Tooth. And if not, then they f*cked up big time, but everyone has off days, or, jobs. Just don't give them an entirely bad label because of one bad job that took over a year. All that stuff that took an extra month or two, they run into snags, that happens when you're working with technology.
Ok, I'm sorry for defending what I think is right and undeserving of peoples bullsh*t, I'll try and remain neutral so I don't cause problems like this again...
Here's the 3 things I've been trying to tell you:
1.) 21st is not solely retail and repairs, now they are a machine shop, and have new priorities. 2.) 21st needs to timeslot you so they don't waste time and money. 3.) 21st has problems that they cannot control, and often are wrongfully blamed for things they cannot stop.
If you think you can do a better job with their same resources, offer to do his job for him with the current conditions. I dare you... God knows I couldn't do it, XD.
EDIT: Thanks, Fishman, for giving an honest post that actually has subject to it and isn't a giant flame post against 21st. You're right, Bill is overconfident about a lot of things, it's just a personality issue, but he does put the machine work before the store, as I said. Case.. closed.
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2006 16:45:19 GMT -5 by Wheeler
No, but you can't blame 21st until you know for certain that it was fully in their control. Something tells me it got lost in transit, and they don't deserve the blame. But again, I don't have the full details, and if Tooth does, I'd love to hear them, that is, if he's talked to Bill and examined every possible scenario.
And again, it's just a single job. It doesn't happen every single time, does it? So they don't deserve a load of bad reviews and sh*t said about them. They're doing the best job possible, they have priority things to do, and if you can't see far enough past your own merchandise and time schedule, then there's really no hope for this problem...
Sh*t, I said I wasn't going to post anymore, why did you ask me a question? XD
It may not be going toward a compromise, but it's at least open dialogue and opposing view points in one concise thread. Now, somebody considering buying from 21CA can read what we've all had to say and make his own decision, which is what this entire forum is all about.
I have to agree with Knief I've thought about locking this thread several times but so far it does expose a problem about a retailer and I do believe if nothing else people, specifically prospective customers have the right to read the experiences of other players. But as I've said thats just my opinion.
xaos - "298,000 yen for a complete gun. How much is that in real money?"
We do have one, they're called Black Mesa Airsoft. Combat Depot, Airsoft Arms, and The 6mm Shop are also very near by (for me, it would be the same drive time to CD as it would be to 21st). They are all hgh end retailers and very viable options.