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Post by Toothbrush on Jan 16, 2006 13:28:22 GMT -5
First, the ugly. Mods, I know many 21CA threads have already been made and that some, if not all of you, feel this should probably go in one of those. The problem I had with that, is that every previous 21CA thread was either locked or not relevant to purchases or actual dealings with 21st. If you still see this as a "thread in error" then you have my apologizes. I hope however, this will not be the case. The Bad:About a one and half years ago, about a month or two after 21st opened, I sent them my broken KSC Glock 26c. Every now and then I would call and see how the progress was going. I won't get into the details, but lets just say numerous problems and issues arose. To say the least, it was often frustrating to hear the same time three calls in a row (never less than a week apart) or to hear that the repair guy was out of town, etc. The Good:Calling before I went on Christmas break, I was told the repair guy was out of town, , I called back today only to hear he was out to lunch, . 21st took my number and called he me back about an hour later. Apparently they sent my gun to someone else . The good news is they are sending me, free of charge, a brand new KWA G26c. It is a bit disappointing they took this long only to lose my gun. But I do get a brand new one out of it. If nothing else, at least they admitted their error and are correcting. I should be receiving it tomorrow or Wednesday and I will update this upon arrival to confirm I did receive it.
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Post by BoredKender on Jan 16, 2006 14:33:48 GMT -5
not to flame... but they'r replacing a high-quality KSC with a KWA, which has been known to have a bit of slop in the QC department. are you REALLY getting a better deal?
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Post by Toothbrush on Jan 16, 2006 15:26:01 GMT -5
Probaly not, but it is better than nothing. As long as I get a gun that works I will be happy. I had lots of fun with my 26c and I hope I will be able to do the same with the replacement.
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Post by Gestapo on Jan 16, 2006 18:29:25 GMT -5
The Good: Bill is a nice guy and knows his way around a machine shop. Knows how to fix anything. Very detailed and nice custom work.
The Bad: (for those who have hear my story before don't bother reading) VMAXBT drove all the way from Livonia with me out to 21CA (3- 3.5 hour drive) to get his Mp5 fixed. We get there, James opens up the gun, takes everything appart to look for a problem. In the mean time, Bill ends up suckering VMAX into buying a high speed motor, a tightbore, and a new spring. It takes James about 4.5 hours of just trying to put the spring in (mind you he was on a hangover), until he just gets "pissed off" and stops. Bill tells us he will fix it himself the next day at the machine shop. It takes VMAX about 2 weeks to get the gun back, and he is charged a nice huge lump of cash for the 6.5 hours of labor (should have taken 45 minutes) Turns out it was just the fuse that was blown... but he included a free one! What a nice guy!
Well, after about a week, the thing shits out again, and he sends it this time. Bill says he will take care of it, and get the gun back within about 2 weeks. His gun comes back, and hasn't had any problems since..... thats because all of the upgrades were gone. All of the money VMAX spent on upgrades, Bill just pretty much threw away, and sent him the mechbox with all his stock parts in it, and stock motor. After complaining, he said he explained it to me in a PM he sent, which I never recieved.... hmm
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Post by Toothbrush on Jan 16, 2006 18:36:03 GMT -5
Just to play devil's advocate, to my knowledge James has be fired. "Dan" is the new (?) repair guy.
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Post by asskickulater on Jan 16, 2006 19:46:04 GMT -5
James quit temporally and actually as of the last time i went down there he's back. In fact he fixed my gun for me. I do have this to say if you don't place your repair on the list and just walk in they are going to charge you an extra $35 on top of your repair cost. That pissed me off because they didn't tell me until after they were already working on my gun.
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Post by Gestapo on Jan 16, 2006 20:07:42 GMT -5
This repair was like........ 6 days after the store opened. He is lucky he didn't slap him with the 35 dollar, because-we-have-better-things-to-do fee.
(All this crap is why I got rid of the 21CA forums)
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Post by asskickulater on Jan 17, 2006 7:11:26 GMT -5
Their rational for the fee is they have a back load of guns to fix that they haven't goten to because of all the people that have just come in as walk-in repair jobs. But your right it more or less is a lot of bull shit.
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Post by kdogg on Jan 17, 2006 12:36:56 GMT -5
I'd be pretty pissed if they tried to pawn a KWA off on me for a KSC pistol. I spend extra time trying to track down KSC pistols, upgrade them to metal slides etc just so I can have a REAL KSC pistol.
I know not everyone cares about trade marks but damn.
I'd tell them to order you a new KSC pistol. I'd also link this thread to Bill. Sometimes but not always public threads can motivate people.
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Post by camophreak on Jan 17, 2006 12:50:14 GMT -5
I must be special....yeah rite!! I have nothing else to say I get walkin service and I leave with my guns....I havent had one bit of trouble. Well, whatever the situation is, I hope it gets taken care of correctly for you... GOOD LUCK! -CP
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Post by Lord Gilbon on Jan 17, 2006 19:12:33 GMT -5
I hope all of you are aware that KWA and KSC are made in the exact same factory. If you dont believe me then do a bit of research. They should be identical.
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Post by Knief on Jan 17, 2006 19:18:59 GMT -5
That's a myth propogated mostly by shitty retailers. It's never actually been confirmed by any real documentation, or even an email from either KSC or KWA. You wouldn't have been around for this (I was just coming into the hobby at the time), but a few years ago, the same kind of retailers were saying that the KWA M9 was an import friendly version of the WA perfect version. It took an email by DumboRAT to find out that WA actually had a law suit pending against KWA for advertising as such. This "KSC and KWA are the exact same" thing could be a similar case. Or, KSC could have licensed some of their designs to be made by KWA as long as they changed a certain number of things, like trade marks. Or KWA could be straight ripping them off. It wouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer a gun and start producing it, provided you had some funds.
So unless you can provide me with some real hard evidence that KSC and KWA guns are made in the same factory, then please don't perpetuate rumors.
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Post by Lord Gilbon on Jan 17, 2006 20:37:49 GMT -5
Heres what I found. This is some info on a KWA G19 and some extra facts about KWA.
Description: - Gas Powered Automatic Airsoft Pistol - Metal Guide Rod - Full Metal Slide and Barrel - Velocity: 320 fps This upgraded version of the KWA G19 comes standard with an aluminum slide and barrel. In the wide world of air guns, and especially gas guns, KWA is a recognized leader with years of experience and plenty of state-of-the-art products to prove it. Their 1:1 scale guns are superbly detailed, and feature a gas blow back full stroke and full open system, real live short recoil, a drop slider loading process, an excellent piston unit, a quick detachable metal magazine, as well as unmatched effectiveness at ranges of 30 to 40 feet! Wait till you get one of these beauties in your hands - with its realistic weight and look you'll be loathe to let it go. Differences between KSC and KWA: The only difference is the box, both KSC and KWA are in fact the same, they are made in the same factory in Taiwan to exactly the same specifications. This is contrary to what some people believe in that KSC guns are made in Japan. However it is confusing as KSC have made it so that only KSC and not KWA guns are exported to Japan. Whereas KWA can be exported to every other country, in general a KSC gun is more expensive partly due to the cost of first shipping the gun to Japan. Some other differences are a more robust design in the KWA's, which incorporate metal slide and barrels.
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Post by kdogg on Jan 17, 2006 20:42:25 GMT -5
So what rep for KSC gave you that info?
That still doesnt really confirm much from where I sit. =)
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Post by Lord Gilbon on Jan 17, 2006 20:49:13 GMT -5
Well it can go both ways Kdogg. Nothing confirms that its true, but nothing confirms that its false either. In fact, there is more proof that shows it is true than that shows it is false. Whatever I say you guys wont believe so how about searching and discovering the information for yourself. Its not exactly that farfetched. More then likely its true. A lot of different companies have their products manufactured in the same factories.
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