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Post by frostee on Apr 3, 2005 13:56:39 GMT -5
It should also be said that a patch design like this: would be printed, not embroidered. You should take the method of manufacture into consideration when designing.
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Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler on Apr 3, 2005 14:08:32 GMT -5
We are on a tight budget, and it will be embroidered, black will be thread. That is why it is simple.
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Post by Gestapo on Apr 3, 2005 14:26:37 GMT -5
it sure as hell looks like a simple design to me
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Post by Nightcrawler on Apr 3, 2005 20:20:26 GMT -5
inFamous, I'm curious...do those lines mean something, or are they just there for looks? (Im not being sarcastic, Im really serious) I think Infamous1 just got lazy and didn't finish the logo. I took the liberty... I keed, I keed. Seriously though, I would like to know the significance of the design. Please entreat Darkryder and me.
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Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler on Apr 3, 2005 23:49:33 GMT -5
Oh, and about that logo you made, Phantom refers to ghost, like, you never see us, type of thing.
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Wheeler
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Post by Wheeler on Apr 4, 2005 10:16:46 GMT -5
I was planning on doing what I wanted, anyways, infamous.
Little stuck on ourselves, though, are we? "Professional" advice? Just because you may be a professional, if you really even are, doesn't mean your advice is professional. You don't have a clue about what I told you, nor did you listen to what I told you about the logo.
And that's a pretty heavy assumption for you to tell me I'm a non-designer and that I don't understand. It'd be my logo, I'm pretty sure I'd understand a heck of a lot more than you, and what's to tell you I'm not a designer? You'd better think your comments through before you say them next time, Mr. Infamous Professional sir... o wait, not sir, I have no respect for you.
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Post by Jacko on Apr 4, 2005 13:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by DarkRyderOmega on Apr 4, 2005 14:15:47 GMT -5
Lots of healthy information...
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Post by Munin on Apr 4, 2005 14:18:15 GMT -5
inFamous, I'm sorry, but it has to be said - you're being a fucking tool. First things first, you are a) not a professional (as you are still in school, and your freshman year at that), and b) you aren't that hot of a designer either. Every logo, patch, splash screen, and graphic you'e ever posted to MIA has been busy, unhelpful, or just plain ugly. Your contributions to this thread have been no exception. Yes, vector drawings are better for printed material because you can resize them. However, if you're just dinking around with some ideas and trying to come up with a scheme to use, raster graphics are fine. They get the point across, which is exactly what Wheelz is trying to do. When it comes time to do your final master for sending to the embroidery shop, use vector graphics. Until then, use whatever is handy. You don't use 1500 grit sandpaper on your cabinet before you've chopped down the tree. Cut the guy some slack. Second, your total and complete missing of the point of the term "phantom" is epic. To YOU (and apparently only to you), the word "phantom" has no meaning outside of "Phantom of the Opera." All this talk about cloaks and hats is pointless, because Wheelz is talking about phantom in the context of the dictionary definition of the word - an apparition or ghost, something unseen. Much like the "Geist" in "Geist Kompanie." And what's this crap about Phantom Operations "evoking thoughts of black, white, red, and violet?" What kind of crap is that? The colors he needs are OD and black, because if you had taken the two seconds it took to actually look at his examples, understand what he was going for, and not be a pedantic asshat on his apparent misuse of the term "logo," you'd have (correctly) deduced that he was looking to refine a patch design. A patch I might add that's going to go on fatigues, which pretty much dictates OD, black, tan, and brown (depending on whether they are using green-based or tan-based fatigues). Some of your points were helpful - the comment about the text dominating the upper portion of the patch and the inner text being too bold were pretty insightful. The rest of your posts have been egotistical crap that have added exactly zero to the conversation. Be constructive or shut the fuck up. Returning you all to your regularly scheduled item, let me put the following $0.02 into your design, Wheelz. I think you're on to something, but you have a little bit of a busy-ness issue going on. The inner text is okay, the outer text is okay, but both together detracts from the overall effect. Actually, it tends to be my opinion that any text at all detracts from the overall effect, but that's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, what is the significance of the four runes? I might suggest that if you're going to keep them, either enclose them all in circles (like you have) or don't enclose any of them in circles. If you do enclose them in circles, maybe link them with lines (which would form a square underneath the sword) to keep the whole thing more cohesive. If you eliminate the Latin motto, you'll have plenty of room to do this. Also, they look better as a square than they do as a triangle. Just a few suggestions. I'm certainly not an expert, nor do I claim to be one, but I understand where you're coming from. Just remember that the best designs are simple, but the simple designs are usually all taken.
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Post by Zorak on Apr 4, 2005 14:22:14 GMT -5
And what's this crap about Phantom Operations "evoking thoughts of black, white, red, and violet?" He's thinking of the comic and the Billy Zane Phantom movie, in which the Phantom wears a violet bodysuit and says things like, "Huh, must be the humidity."
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Mite
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Post by Mite on Apr 4, 2005 14:39:28 GMT -5
Sigh - Is anyone that has responded on this thread a professional graphic artist? I know inFamous1 (tz) is NOT (he is in training (college) he is at least taking art classes and all that). I have no idea if Wheelz is. I'm certainly NOT so take just about everything below with a grain of salt. I don't see how you can tell if someone created the images as vector or raster because the best thing to post on the net is a raster image because you know everyone will be able to view it without trouble. Wheelz may in fact have created the image as a vector and then converted it to a raster. Wheelz, if your image isn't vector, you probably should create it as a vector (if you have the software tools to do so), it will make scaling a lot better. And the place that does the embroidering might prefer a vector format (you'll probably get better results with a vector format for an embroidered patch ). As for patches, the simplier the better. Take a look at most US military division patches and you'll see they are extremely simple in nature. Your patch should have an identifiable element that can be discerned from several feet away. Feel free to throw some text on there if you want, but the one large key element is really the only thing that matters. Look Here for some samples. You'll note that the patch is usually very simple. The crest, when there is one, is much more complicated So, if you are looking to make a patch, keep it as simple as possible. You are trying to make something that someone can "instantly" identify your team by, from a distance. If your friends want a more complicated arrangement, perhaps you need a patch and a crest. They can have design elements in common. You'll note that some element of the patch is typically repeated in the crest for the Army division stuff. Give it some thought. I think your two current choices might be a bit complicated for a patch, but might be good crest material. Mite <EDIT> Lots of people posted while I was writing. After looking at your two patches here is a thought or two. I like the odd shape of the sword. Keep the sword and ditch just about everything else. Inverse the sword and drop the symbols from the sword blade so that it is mostly composed of black thread on an OD background (you'll have a little OD showing through in the center where the blood goove is). Maybe add, at most, one other design element to the patch (is one of the symbols more important than the others? Maybe you could keep the two knives (again, inversed)). If you want, keep the outer ring of text, but ditch the other rign of text (the latin). Really, I am with Munin, no need for "long" text on a patch. You are looking for a symbol/design. If a letter or two are significant (like an MiA patch would have MiA on it maybe), that that's not too much to have on the patch. But no one is going to read the patch. Another idea is to divide the patch in half and change the inversing, you'll see several of the army division patches do that. Those suggestions are for a patch. For the crest, as I said, I think you might be close already. </EDIT>
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tZ
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Post by tZ on Apr 4, 2005 14:46:38 GMT -5
No proffessional designer creates mock ups in photoshop. Photoshop is meant for PHOTO modification and line art coloring only. It was not meant to create mock ups. This is better done by hand or in a vector program. Where ease of arrangment is a key component of the software. Furthermore, my design for his logo was meant only as a general guidline and format to follow. Not as a fully refined logo or even idea. A format which he could make applicable to his next designs if he so chooses for a more successfull outcome. I'm assuming your knowledge of vector over raster comes from the dictonary and no expierience. So i'm just going to leave that be. I don't know why its diss me time?.... i offered a constructive critique. Well, if you think all my stuff sucks then to each thier own i quess. I can agree with you to an extent on some work. However, i idea is to learn from this so i can create more successfull creations in the future and thats the way i take all of my critism. Not as a personal attack. Espeically from ones who offer no integrity behind thier abruff conclusion regarding the matter. I am not a proffessional yet.... i allready stated that so some people need to read. However, i get proffessional advice from proffessionals or masters. Much of this advice and lessons can be made directly applicable to this genre. (i.e. balance, unity, color thoeries, Emphasis, etc). Design For a patch you want to create emphasis through text/name and perhaps one part of the design such as; the identity of the team (sword, ect- nothing to complex). There needs to be a sense of blance and unity between both the right and left side. So the design works on a whole rather then two parts. Color: use of two colors for printing purposes or three i belive. There for, color thoery may need to be disreaded to an extend because of the format. However, they can still be applicatible. You are working with a circle so sysmetry bewteen side should be present through text, etc. You could also do a radial design- that would be challenging. Keep the patch simple cause detial can not be seen on such a small format. Create the most amount of impact in the most simplist way you can. Try to come up with an ingenious idea/theme/design perhaps one which creates a sense of mystery (team identity, typography, arrangement, etc). The goal is to engage the viewer and not confuss them.
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Post by Gestapo on Apr 4, 2005 15:10:18 GMT -5
inFamous, I'm sorry, but it has to be said - you're being a fucking tool. AMEN! "Photoshop is meant for PHOTO modification and line art coloring only" please infamous...... go look at some PS tutorials and then tell me that photoshop is just for image editing.....
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Mite
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Post by Mite on Apr 4, 2005 15:32:38 GMT -5
Because I was feeling like having some fun and taking a break from the analysis I was doing, here is a very poorly done sample of what I think might be a nice patch: I took the image you posted and did some pixel pushing for awhile. So there are all kinds of problems when you zoom in, so don't. As I said previously, redo in vector. The OD colored blood groove needs to be a bit wider, the sword should be a bit longer (quite a bit longer actually, I'd like to see it closer to the top of the patch so that it is BIGGER, thus more visible at a distance), but I think it conveys the ideas I mentioned. Take it or leave it... (I'm no artist, that is for sure). I think that will certainly be recognizble at a distance. <edit> in response to inFamous, I was going text free on purpose, I needed the knives for a bit of balance I like how all the hilts are together as well </edit> <edit some more> So inFamous, what's your favorite vector program. I've got a guy I work with who is in love with Canvas (because he is doing technical illustration which is what Canvas was designed for). Canvas pushes pixels pretty well too. </edit some more> Mite
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Mite
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Post by Mite on Apr 4, 2005 16:02:18 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, continually editing sucked.
I disagree with inFamous (can't you change back to tz, it was shorter to type), I think adding text will mung up the simplicity and be unreadable at any kind of distance anyway. And the sword should definitely be bigger for the patch I suggested.
But hey, it isn't our patch, what do you think Wheelz? Any other opinions? My fragile ego can take it, I think...
Mite
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