ACO Monthly - April 22, 2006

[thefreeman]

I certainly enjoyed the smaller game more than big games where everyone becomes mindless and just starts spraying anything that moves without thought. Very enjoyable.

Gunslinger, I went to a gun show today and found that you can get a REAL M4/M16 in good condition for LESS than you payed for the Systema. I suppose that if you have the money, it might be worth it, but I think it's a little much when an airsoft gun costs more than the real thing, eh? Not to say that I wasn't impressed with the performance...

Anyhow, Arc did an excellent job in planning this one out. The terrain was great, and I liked how we sort of moved to different sections in each game instead of going wild across the whole thing for 5 hours. The range was ultra-close, so I didn't need my rifle all that much, but I think I like being up-close-and-personal better than long range fighting. And since ACO is doing this every month, I'm looking forward to the next one.

[Gunslinger]

Yeah but you cant shoot the ones you love with this one. And I don't know exotically who you are but if you would have been in confrontations with me you would have seen the performance difference. And true they may not seam worth while to some one who hasn't ran with one for a game but I honestly wasn't completely sold until I used it in a "game" setting. It defiantly out shinned 90% of the other guns on the field if not 100%. I would really like to pit it against another AEG with a equal amount of $$$ sink into it to see if the gun was truly Superior.Thats something we need to find, Some one me and another individual with a high end AEG could take them to and have them perform test from a neutral stan point to honestly see who's is the better gun or at the very least was it a worthwhile purchase to begin with?

I think Ill make this post in the of topic to see if there is any takers.

[shrike]

Great Job Arc!
I had a great time. I, too, would like to thank Simon for the great field and everyone who must have put in many back-breaking hours digging out all of those fighting positions, filling sandbags, and building bunkers.
It was nice mixing things up a bit. We all got a chance to work with different people and in different areas throughout the day. I enjoyed talking to Simon and Wildcard and trying out some of Simon's guns. It was a great group of guys out there and it was a pleasure working with all of you. I'm really looking forward to the next one.

Paul

[Munin]

I too had a good time and enjoyed getting out and shooting people (especially Gunslinger).

Which brings me to my next point - the Systema guns. They seem like nice replicas, and I dig the fact that everything is exact 1-to-1 scale with real steel parts. The quick-change cylinder is nice (although not original, the ICS M4 had a 2-part mechbox as well), but I wonder how necessary it is. I rarely change my spring, but when I do, I take the opportunity of having my gearbox open to do routine maintenance of my internals - something you can't do to a Systema without screwing yourself and voiding any kind of warranty.

Which brings me to the next problem - if anything were to break on my TM, I know that I can get parts for it anywhere. There are a variety of manufacturers of after-market parts, so competition offers a wide selection and keeps prices relatively low. The design has tons of documentation on the web for newbies, and there are lots of upgrades available to customize your gun in a variety of ways (more than just increasing the FPS, such as increasing ROF or accuracy).

There are a few design features that I really like. The Crane battery is really nice, and certainly more refined than my custom job (though equally effective). And having to slap the bolt release is a great training tool. And finally, the 3-round burst feature alone is worth some coin.

But the price tag is awfully high, and I'm not sure it's worth it for new players. In terms of overall performance, I didn't see any significant difference in the outcomes of the games we played. Gunslinger died just as quickly (and more often) to my TM than I did to his Systema. This just lends credence to the old saw that Xaos raises every time the question of upgrades comes up, and that's that it's the players' skills, teamwork, and tactics rather than the replica that make the difference.

I do have one question, though - which cylinder were you guys using? The 350 or the 450?

[Bishop]

No one let you shoot one.. Did they? If not that’s to bad because I was a skeptic till I go to put some rounds threw one.
I believe the cylinders shoots 410 not 450

[snap]

Wish I could have made this one (was in Indianna) but its not a waste of money if you use it and enjoy it more than a real steel.

[thefreeman]

gunslinger said:

Yeah but you cant shoot the ones you love with this one. And I don't know exotically who you are but if you would have been in confrontations with me you would have seen the performance difference. And true they may not seam worth while to some one who hasn't ran with one for a game but I honestly wasn't completely sold until I used it in a "game" setting. It defiantly out shinned 90% of the other guns on the field if not 100%. I would really like to pit it against another AEG with a equal amount of $$$ sink into it to see if the gun was truly Superior.Thats something we need to find, Some one me and another individual with a high end AEG could take them to and have them perform test from a neutral stan point to honestly see who's is the better gun or at the very least was it a worthwhile purchase to begin with?

I think Ill make this post in the of topic to see if there is any takers.

I'm the dude with the MP7 which you noted was "shiny." You have a point, and I was shot at point blank with one of the systemas and it hurt like nothing else. There are also some marks on my dad's face from it, and I was certainly impressed with the performance and customizable-ness of the guns. Spending the money is probably worth it, but it does seem a little nuts for practical use; just my opinion. But hey, if I had the money I'd get one.

[Arc]

I agree with the above completely. A PTW is not required to be competetive in airsoft, but if it's worth it to you to obtain one, it will be worth every penny. For what it's worth, i'm purging my collection of most everything else. It's not that i don't like my other guns, it's that i will never use them now that i've got the PTW.

And on a side note (one that's a little more topic oriented), I'm glad that everyone had a good time. Those of us that stuck it out for the night game had a ton of fun. The things that can be done with a little tape...

[Gunslinger]

yeah the 1500 candle wat lamp taped to a m60 does wonders!

We cronoed the blue cylinders at 357 and the gold ones at 415,


sorry for the wrong info the 480fps was not correct we chronoed again and came up with the above fps of 415fps. also after about 20 min into the 1st game I changed out to my blue cylinder which shot 345-360fps and stayed with that the rest of the day.

Wildcard was using his gold cylinder but he always observes a 20ft engagement limit

[Bishop]

Pictures of the April 22nd event have been posted, check out www.acoclub.com and click on the media link to see your sexy selves.

Special thanks to Ed Van Hooren for providing the photos.

And remember to sign up for the next ACO Monthly taking place on Sunday May 21st

[Munin]

Wildcard let me shoot his. Like I said, I totally dig the 3-round burst feature.

gunslinger said:

We cronoed the blue cylenders at 357 and the gold ones at 468.

...And you were using the gold cylinder in yours. Well no fucking wonder it was performing well - you were 58 FPS above the MIA semi auto limit and a good 200 FPS over the typical stock gun. No wonder freemen said it hurt so bad. Dude, if you're going to do a comparison, do it with guns of the same velocity.

For what it's worth, the quick-change cylinder is both an asset and a drawback. It's an asset because it's easy to change, allowing you to modify your velocity to fit your event. It's a drawback because it's easy to change, allowing asshats everywhere to chrono, swap cylinders to something higher, and laugh as they light people up at unsafe velocities. I remember when certain paintball guns weren't allowed on fields because the velocity was too easy to change without tools. Most airsofters are cool enough to not do that, but I can virtually guarantee that some asshat somewhere is already rubbing his grubby mitts together thinking of the welts he's going to raise.

[Mandor]

yeah me....(rubbing grubby little mitts together ;D)

[Munin]

See? Told you.

[Dutch]

My apologies for anybody that was on the field last weekend at smited by one of the hot Systema replicas carrying the gold cylinders. Please note that the ACO Battle Ground will no longer allow gold cylinders to be used.

The only allowable cylinders will be black, green, and blue.

[wildcard]

After talking to Wallace (systema rep) I have found out that the springs inside the different cylinder are actually maid by pdi and cut to lenght to fit into the appropriate spring rates. The normal break in period for a ptw is 4000-6000 rounds with that particular cylinder so once people have shot at least that Meany rounds and are still shooting hot I will cut a little off their spring to bring it back to where it should be,110or blue=350fps, and 130or gold=400fps. I apologize for any problems that have accrued during this learning process, but rest assured that I am on it and will make sure that problems are taken care of quickly.