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Post by Hadoken on Feb 19, 2002 23:02:57 GMT -5
We've all seen this place grow quite rapidly since October 2001. No longer are events gathering just a handful of players, in fact we're getting so much interest in some events we've had to turn a few of you down. With this growth I think it's time we set up a few guidelines we all should follow to make games here easier to organize and more importantly, make them safer to players of all ages. Over the next couple of days JackStraw and I will try to set up some rules and regulations for all future MiA events. Some might not care for the new rules, but I think it's what we need to set up a long term and dedicated organization. I would really appreciate it if you all took some time and thought about what you think needs to be done. Let's try to keep the flames down here and seriously set up something great.
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JackStraw
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Post by JackStraw on Feb 19, 2002 23:25:51 GMT -5
Well to get the BB rolling, I offer up the links below. Check these out, add some more, and then come on back and we'll discuss things you like or don't like. I'd really like to see us create a framework of Rules/Regs to work with by May of this year (that's 60 days, step on me as need be Hado!). Notice I said framework, and not patchwork ;D. Perhaps one discussion we should have is the need for flexibility within the rules based on scenarios, guns used, number of players, inside vs. outside, geography and size of skirmish site, etc. I'd personally like to see some basic rules/regs in place, but agree some flexibility is a healthy thing as the situation merits. Also, I'm with Hado. Lets keep the flames down and the focus sharp here. If we stay on task we'll arrive at our destination sooner and with less baggage. I'm sure I won't like some rules/regs we arrive at, and maybe some of you won't either - that's OK. Rants and beating of dead equines (look it up) will not get us anywhere but buried in horse pucky. I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. leave personal issues at the door before clicking the link "Regulations" and be prepared to help set the course for airsoft in MI when you enter into discussions. www.neasg.net/mission.htmlwww.airsoftohio.com/phpBB/rules.phpwww.valkyrieair.com/mwraa/rules.htmwww.cimmerians.com/code.htmwww.socalairsoft.f2s.com/rules.htm
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Post by Locutus on Feb 19, 2002 23:26:07 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan Hado. While you should take input from others, I think you should be the one making the final decisions on the rules..
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Post by Echo187 on Feb 19, 2002 23:52:33 GMT -5
What I believe should happen-
1> Hit Rules- After reading The links Provided by jackstraw This is the best way to Determine a hit -Any Part Of the body (HIT) -The Players Gun(NOT HIT) -Ricochet(SORRY about the spelling NOT HIT)
2> The maximum weight of a bullet, that is a 6mm plastic or biodegradable, is 0.36 grams. All weapons belong to one of the following three classes: - Support Weapons: Any weapon that can fire full auto and/or has multiple HiCaps (High Capacity Magazines) or Box magazines. Maximum of 2000 BBs. The weapon is full length with bipods or look like a real support weapon. Maximum energy is 1.5J and no heavier BB's than 0.25g. - Sniper Rifles: Any weapon that is either a semi or bolt action rifle. Full auto capability and HiCap’s aren't allowed. Maximum energy is 2.32J. - Standard Weapons: A weapon that is classified as any weapon other than those above. Maximum energy is 1.5J and the bullets weight can't be heavier than 0.25g and no more than 600BB's. (This is the Exact thing that Airsoft ohio says However i do not know what Joules adds out to be ... heres a reference 400 fps with a .25g BB, which is 1.86 joules (rounded). 447 fps with a .20g BB, which is 1.86 joules (rounded).
3> Age Restrictions - There Should not be a Agreement that Players under 18 should have to sign ... I know people are gonna disagree with me on this Seeing that i am 15... However I know that there has to be a legal agreement (signatures) Between the owners of the land and the players and i sont know how that works or how to work that out... You should have to sign legalities if you are to rent equippment and than that wouuld have to be a parent sig ( i mean What parent wouldnt be aware ... or let you play the game if they were the one to get you the gun with THEir credit card)
4> as for the sportsmanship/Fignting/whatever aspect of the sport i am pretty sure that we all arent assholes and can keep ourselves under control.. as for the few who may not... ( well we all have airsoft guns ..I believe that would be able to stun him into submission.. Espesially with all of us there ) just kidding ... HOPE everything works out and not too many people are upset... Just wanted to make sure i got my thoughts in ;D
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JackStraw
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Post by JackStraw on Feb 20, 2002 0:01:43 GMT -5
Joules & FPS Conversion Will work in both directions. Will also chop, slice, dice, program your VCR, load BB's, walk your dog, compute infinity, and things not yet discovered. Aw heck, just check it out...... 216.103.65.124/cimmerians/power.html
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Post by Locutus on Feb 20, 2002 0:31:20 GMT -5
Yeah, we state FPS limits in joules so there is no confusion over what BB are limits are set for. joules are always the same regardless of the BB weight.
1.5J is roughly 400fps with .2 BBs
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Ed
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Post by Ed on Feb 20, 2002 2:58:27 GMT -5
I hate to say it but: This is kind of what I am trying to stop.
We all know about age restrictions and gun restrictions. We also know about hit rules and what applies to them. What I would like to see is that we set up a few suggestive terms on how each player should act and perform on the field. These terms are what every player in the past has acted by (as far as I know), and I know that all MiA players just want to keep the good luck and good sportsmanship flowing within the games...
There wasn't a problem before. In the future, (with hope) there won't be a problem. What I don't want to see is a strict, pre-determined set of rules restricting any player.
In this post I hope I can open all of you to what I am saying so that everyone can play the game to their fullest and (most importantly) not get hurt.
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Post by Bigmack on Feb 20, 2002 3:41:49 GMT -5
that's what this thread is about, Ed....taking peoples opinions and seeing where most of the concern lies. nothing in this thread may even become an MiA rule...its just getting a sampling of opinions.
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Post by Keller on Feb 20, 2002 11:40:55 GMT -5
I agree that there should be a basic set of rules.
At LKA this is how we play at our outdore site and we never have problems.
-goggles are always on PERIOD (saves us from other rules) -Any gun is acceptable so long as no one complains. -If someone complains somthing will be done about it. -when you die, if your in the middle of a fire fight - yell it and put your gun up and sit down - when its safe you may walk off the field with your gun up -no going off the field to reload during a fire fight - you must have all your equipment on you -games last as long as they have to
We will never limit age as we want as many people to play as possible. we are not a corperation so we dont fear law suits.
Also, let up on Ed, he organized the bigest event sponsored by you guys and as far as I know, it was a lot of peoples favorite. He is just thinking what Im thinking - we dont want to keep people from playing because of their age. We dont want this to be like PAINTBALL do we.
in conclusion, a basic set of general play rules is good, especially for newbies but lets leave it mainly to the field coordinators to make sure everyone is following them (the way it has been).
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JackStraw
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Post by JackStraw on Feb 20, 2002 13:11:15 GMT -5
C'mon guys, this hasn't even been up 24 hours and some of you are already on the defensive......sheesh. Keller wrote: If you were a corp. you would probably fear lawsuits a whole lot less. Ever been involved in a lawsuit? I have and nearly received a guy's entire farm (the value thereof) as compensation for my injuries. He was a private individual, not a corp. and his only method of compensating to the extent I went for was to liquidate his assets. Corps. are provided some protection that individuals are not. This thread is about rules & regs, so if you wish to discuss this matter I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. do so via Priv. Msg. or my email. As for age limits, I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. see below. My congrats to Ed on his event, but how did Regulations play a role, or was it something else (planning, turnout, scenarios, venue, etc)? Also, you'll know when we're down on him, and I just don't see it here. He seems pretty capable of handling himself when the going gets tough, so if need be lets let him do it himself and stay on task here. I remind you again, if you have an issue outside of rules & regs I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. take it to Priv. Msg. or email or another area of the forum. This is baggage and I do not wish to carry it around on this thread. The topic is too important to airsoft in MI. I too have also helped organizd large events, some were televised on ESPN. We followed NORBA rules & regs and added/adjusted to meet our site and participants needs. If you look at the info found on the links above you will see some commonalities. I and others disagree with you on age limitations, and I will add that I feel bad about that because I want many to enjoy this hobby. I also want to be able to continue enjoying this hobby safely, and find many younger players (approx. 13 yrs. and below) have yet to mature to a level to be responsible with firearms (real or airsoft) without adult supervision. I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. see this thread miairsoft.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1014098973 for previous discussion. I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. do not bring Paintball into the mix here, as it DOES NOT belong. If you have an issue with paintball rules & regs find a forum where you can discuss them. I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. avoid arriving at conclusions and painting this discussion with such "broad strokes". The purpose of this thread was for CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOG & DISCUSSION - that means give & take in a productive and non-assumptive manner. I'm too lazy to spell a full word out. Please mock me. note my initieal post above where I state that we are working on a "framework" and that some flexibility may be necessary. Folks, PLEASE focus on rules & regs here and stop fearing them. Nothing has even been voted on, agreed to or thoroughly discussed yet. Relax, give thought and try to see both sides, then type and hit "POST". The following are excellent ideas and just what I'm hoping to see in this thread. Thank you for your input in this manner, it is useful to all and a basis for discussion:
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Post by Keller on Feb 20, 2002 14:01:45 GMT -5
There where two main points I was trying to get across.
First, rules should be simple as we try to keep them on our field. If there are to many or are to complicated then people will mostlikly loose intrest in hearing them. Ive experianced this first hand.
Secondly was the point that any player should be able to play but it seems that a rule against this has allready been put forward. I as the web manager for LKA would not like to loose your support at MIA but I ask that at our events, you let this matter be our responcibility.
Thats all.
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Post by Hadoken on Feb 20, 2002 14:15:47 GMT -5
In the end all the decissions will be up to JackStraw here and me, I only started this thread to hear some opinions and perhaps new ideas we wouldn't have thought of. We'll take the info and crunch it down into what SHOULD be a nice simple set of rules nobody will have trouble following.
We're not trying to complicate things here, just make a few minor changes to help better the safety of players and the hobby for the future.
Doh, message will have to be cut short...Hado Jr. is freaking out big time. Arrgh.
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Robo
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Post by Robo on Feb 21, 2002 0:21:25 GMT -5
i gotta mostly agree with ed on this one, although i do think it is reasonable that a minor might have to sign a liability paper. As far as a phone # to back it up, it think is going way too far. Also keller makes a good point, lets try not too make too many restrictions, and so many set rules to where it basically turns into paintball
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Ed
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Post by Ed on Feb 21, 2002 16:10:37 GMT -5
We are not going to let really young people play. Everybody knows this. I MIGHT be jumping the gun here, but I don't want this whole "regulations thing" to snowball into something we will regret. Yes, I might be a little defensive and I apologize, but I hope you all know where I am coming from.
What I don't want to do is argue this regulation thing so that NO rules get made. Let's get the basics down fast and then lets discuss the rest. There are some rules that everybody follows (like goggles, safety, etc.), lets agree on those terms so that we can accomplish something.
Another reason why I am making so much noise is that the LKA game is coming up and I don't want a large policy change to come in conflict this game.
I'll post more later. Thanks
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Blorfo
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Post by Blorfo on Feb 21, 2002 16:13:33 GMT -5
personally..............i think its better when people stay where they get hit. like in real life. people say im sick for saying that but its more realistic and........one day we were playing at sick's and.........whats his name.........-cronos- was there. he got hit and walked off to the patio. thats fine. however, a few minutes later i snuck up behind two people on the other team and he goes "JOE!!!" which totally gave me away, thereby ruining my little ambush. that probably didnt make much sense, but theres my 2 cents.
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