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Post by LargePrime on Oct 2, 2002 23:50:34 GMT -5
It looks like we stuck with it and came up with an excellent solution.
Just to highlight the great wisdom in this.
1) The all stock guys (AEG and GBB) have a 'no minimum' advantage.
2) The m120 is about the limit to what our AEG's can reliably take, without going to very expensive upgrades.
3) The sniper guys should be happy.
How do the CQB experts feel about it?
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WTS-Mike
New Member
Preachah Man
Former Owner of Wolverine Tactical Supply and general all around nice guy
Posts: 577
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Post by WTS-Mike on Oct 3, 2002 6:34:34 GMT -5
The discussion doesn't affect CQB........ indoor limit is 350 tops.
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Post by frostee on Oct 3, 2002 11:26:15 GMT -5
Now that there is a proposal that seems to be acceptable to most let me expand the concept just a bit. I created an Excel spreadsheet that uses the fps to Joules conversion that LargePrime posted and lists Joules for .20, .25, .30, .36, and .43 gram bb's from 1 to 700 fps. I did this because I know that a lot of players use .25's rather than .20's and I wanted to make sure that the energy ratings we agree on are really fair to all. I hope you will be able to understand the logic behind these ratings.
1-350 fps or 1.20J max - arms length engagement limit 351-410 fps or 1.69J max - 20 foot engagement limit 411-550 fps or 3.18J max - 50 foot engagement limit 551+ fps or over 3.18J - prohibited or allowed by permission of event host only
I propose these ratings because it will allow a person with a gun shooting near the high end of the fps range to shoot with .25's without the restrictiveness of the .20's Joule rating. Example- Johnny wants to play "up close and personal". Johnny's airsoft shoots near 350 fps with .2's so he's good for the close "kills". However, if we limit him to the Joule rating for .20's (1.13J) and he really prefers to use .25 (or only has .25's) he's out of luck. With the proposed fps/Joule rating we can allow him to shoot the .25's at 1.20J (323 fps). Johnny has to stay at/or under 350 fps and at/or under 1.20J. Johnny could not shoot 350 fps with his .25's because that would put him at 1.41J and he would be in the next range level (351-410 fps or 1.69J max).
The breakdown is: 1.20J = 323 with with .25 gram bb's
1.69J = 383 fps with .25 gram bb's
3.18J = 525 fps with .25's or 400 fps with .43 gram bb's
My feelings are that this is almost identical to the proposal we all seemed to like with mild exceptions for the use of .25's rather than just .20's, but with the same safety conscious limits as before.
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Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on Oct 3, 2002 12:24:19 GMT -5
Frostee,
You da man!!!
I like them....
Sounds good to me.
Keeps playability, safety, and caution...
Nice work man, nice work.
-Vitalis
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Post by DevilDog on Oct 3, 2002 14:57:13 GMT -5
Nice job Frostee!!!
Could you e-mail me or ICQ me the Excel Spreadsheet?
This seems to make it fair for everyone thats playing!! For the CQB, Mike is right!! 350 fps seems like a reasonable cap.
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Post by severa327 on Oct 3, 2002 15:03:08 GMT -5
Real nice job Frostee!!
I agree. Lets try it for a few games and see how it works in the field. ;D
--Severa
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WTS-Mike
New Member
Preachah Man
Former Owner of Wolverine Tactical Supply and general all around nice guy
Posts: 577
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Post by WTS-Mike on Oct 3, 2002 23:04:05 GMT -5
kudos! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Viking on Aug 5, 2003 23:03:36 GMT -5
All the more reason not to get hit right?
Actually, try getting shot in the back at 15 feet once by a 350fps gun and then again with a 400fps gun, there is quite a difference in the amount of pain between the two. Secondly part of the game, that’s crap. I for one never started playing airsoft because I knew it would hurt. Airsoft is about playing mil sims in a cheap and fun environment, not about inflicting pain. Sure, I am one of those people that have a higher pain tolerance then most, I like to play with people who use higher end guns not because they hurt more but because it helps out with recreating the ballistics a little (shooting threw brush, further range, etc) but rules are set for our safety. To have unsafe rules to being with would be a waste of time, and for you to make such a comment like you just did extremely express yourself as a newbie. Newbie!
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Post by Bigmack on Aug 6, 2003 8:12:01 GMT -5
heh, Turtle, you are a total noob.
400fps arms length will break the skin...trust me...i've shot myself in the hand a couple times.
Use this as a general rule..
350 feels 2x as worse as 300. 400 feels 2x as worse as 350. 450 feels 2x as worse as 400...etc etc
don't believe me? get some teammates to shoot you in the back with one of each from about a 5 foot distance.
My G3 shoots just over 400. somewhere like 408 when i chrono'd it last.
as such, i need to remember that i'm playing my teammates and other people who might have a lower tolerance for pain than i.
95% of the time when i'm playing, My selector switch is set to semi... i only go fully automatic when supporting my advancing teammates or trying to defeat an enemy advance in force. Usually the distance from myself to target in those situations will permit me to do so.
400 is a nice even number, manageable pain, and fits in with the M120/170% standard.
for 450, you're looking at between an M130 and M140.
on paper, an M130 fires around 430 while an M140 does around 460.
Everyone seems to think that the faster their gun fires, the better they'll do... Skill and tactics are 95% of the game. equipment makes up the rest.
Equipment and tactics complement each other to form a battle strategy your team can work with. with GK, we have set roles that we all work within as a team. For example, Frostee and Q both snipe, Warmonger, Jacko, Viking, Snip, Hado, Minky, Gosu and I assault and support each other, and we all work within our roles in the squad to acomplish our objectives.
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TurtleBoyPW5
New Member
Dream Gun: Asahi Super Sterling
Posts: 284
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Post by TurtleBoyPW5 on Aug 6, 2003 11:36:54 GMT -5
statement retracted..........sry for my stupidity
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leader98
New Member
M4 upgraded to 350~fps w/ KM lightweight silencer
Posts: 301
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Post by leader98 on Jan 9, 2004 8:50:34 GMT -5
I would like to see the first set of engagement rules vitalis suggested. I currently own a TM m4 that shoots 400 fps and would not mind having a shorter engagement rule and saying that I'm twelve suck it up and take the pain. ;D
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Post by Bigmack on Jan 13, 2004 18:02:33 GMT -5
well lets just change it then because you matter so much.
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leader98
New Member
M4 upgraded to 350~fps w/ KM lightweight silencer
Posts: 301
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Post by leader98 on Jan 13, 2004 20:55:37 GMT -5
I have nothing else to say
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HotelSixActual
New Member
TM Sig 552, KWC Caspian .45 Owned: TM M4A1, KSC Glock 18c, KWC Glock 17
Posts: 816
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Post by HotelSixActual on Jan 13, 2004 23:21:48 GMT -5
I posted something before and decided to deleat it be here goes.
Notice the date on the last post leader, it was quite sometime ago. I think the FPS ranges are pretty much set. Most people have a pretty good feeling for the rules that are in place now.
Remember FPS engagements limits dont have to do with how much pain it causes, but with safty. Never comprimise safty just so you can hit someone before they hit you.
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leader98
New Member
M4 upgraded to 350~fps w/ KM lightweight silencer
Posts: 301
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Post by leader98 on Feb 2, 2004 20:02:39 GMT -5
Yes hotel I agree point well taken thanks for reminding me
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