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Post by X on Mar 13, 2015 20:37:40 GMT -5
For those of you discussing AEG joule creep: It's a real thing. A guy I know built what is called a "joule-creeper," and AEG meant to abuse the system, just to prove he could. 165mm inner barrel widebore, type-0 (closed) cylinder, M150 spring. 320 FPS on 0.2-gram and 400 FPS on a 0.3-gram BB. THAT should scare you. Because it's easy to take that on the field and use it. Like I said a while pack in the P* discussion thread we had, while I was trying to find ways to break Mosin's chrono method: If someone is smart enough and dedicated enough, they will be able to do it. It just takes a knowledge of the gun, the physics, and the willingness to cheat. What really needs to be done is some serious testing and then planning of a system that does not rely on the player being honest. Because if you are relying on the player's honesty, why the hell are you checking them in the first place? Checking is to find cheaters. Also, more joules = more pain. That's more kinetic energy hitting you and therefore more damage to your body. First, I don't buy your "guy I know" story. I'm assuming you have some numbers mixed up because going from 0.9J to 2.23J is crazy talk. And besides that its just not possible for the heavier projectile to come out of the barrel at a higher velocity if the pressure is the same. Second, we have already thrown out ideas for several systems that could work. Measuring BBs, using host BBs, etc. All of those work. Lastly, you are assuming Kinetic energy = damage. That's an assumption that shouldn't be made without adequate testing and observation.
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Post by Stinger on Mar 13, 2015 20:48:59 GMT -5
First, I don't buy your "guy I know" story. I'm assuming you have some numbers mixed up because going from 0.9J to 2.23J is crazy talk. And besides that its just not possible for the heavier projectile to come out of the barrel at a higher velocity if the pressure is the same. 300 FPS...it should be 300 FPS. I'm not quite crazy. The idea is that it wastes energy LESS than it usually would. It doesn't magically gain energy. Typically, you see about 40 FPS loss when going up by 0.05 grams in BB weight. In this case, only 20 FPS was lost and the BB weight went up by 0.1 grams. That's a HUGE difference. Using host BBs is the best way to do it. I don't think we need to re-prove that more energy = more damage = more pain.
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Post by X on Mar 13, 2015 21:37:56 GMT -5
First, I don't buy your "guy I know" story. I'm assuming you have some numbers mixed up because going from 0.9J to 2.23J is crazy talk. And besides that its just not possible for the heavier projectile to come out of the barrel at a higher velocity if the pressure is the same. 300 FPS...it should be 300 FPS. I'm not quite crazy. The idea is that it wastes energy LESS than it usually would. It doesn't magically gain energy. Typically, you see about 40 FPS loss when going up by 0.05 grams in BB weight. In this case, only 20 FPS was lost and the BB weight went up by 0.1 grams. That's a HUGE difference. Using host BBs is the best way to do it. I don't think we need to re-prove that more energy = more damage = more pain. When was this scientifically proven? Again I don't think this is relevant and I'm not saying we have to I'm just throwing it out there that this is an educated guess we have made but as far as I know has never been tested via a scientific method.
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Post by Stinger on Mar 13, 2015 21:47:57 GMT -5
I don't think we need to re-prove that more energy = more damage = more pain. When was this scientifically proven? Again I don't think this is relevant and I'm not saying we have to I'm just throwing it out there that this is an educated guess we have made but as far as I know has never been tested via a scientific method. "The severity of injuries inflicted as a result of blunt force trauma is dependent on the amount of kinetic energy transferred and the tissue to which the energy is transferred. The kinetic energy associated with a moving object is equal to one half the mass of that object multiplied by the velocity of the object squared (1/2 mv2). In general, a somewhat lighter object traveling at high speed will cause more damage than a heavier object traveling at low speed." emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overviewThere's TONS of research online into this kind of stuff.
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Post by Tank on Mar 13, 2015 22:01:49 GMT -5
Um. So you just prooved yourself wrong then. Higher speed, lighter object > slower speed, heavier object.
This isn't really the discussion though at hand, more of a side curiosity.
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Post by Stinger on Mar 13, 2015 22:10:24 GMT -5
Um. So you just prooved yourself wrong then. Higher speed, lighter object > slower speed, heavier object. This isn't really the discussion though at hand, more of a side curiosity. How does that prove me wrong? My point was that more energy = more pain. It had nothing to do with the objects.
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Post by X on Mar 13, 2015 22:16:21 GMT -5
When was this scientifically proven? Again I don't think this is relevant and I'm not saying we have to I'm just throwing it out there that this is an educated guess we have made but as far as I know has never been tested via a scientific method. "The severity of injuries inflicted as a result of blunt force trauma is dependent on the amount of kinetic energy transferred and the tissue to which the energy is transferred. The kinetic energy associated with a moving object is equal to one half the mass of that object multiplied by the velocity of the object squared (1/2 mv2). In general, a somewhat lighter object traveling at high speed will cause more damage than a heavier object traveling at low speed." emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overviewThere's TONS of research online into this kind of stuff. We're going to have to agree to disagree because we're derailing the thread. You're quoting autopsy research and applying it to Airsoft. Think about that for a second.
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Post by Stinger on Mar 13, 2015 22:21:02 GMT -5
"The severity of injuries inflicted as a result of blunt force trauma is dependent on the amount of kinetic energy transferred and the tissue to which the energy is transferred. The kinetic energy associated with a moving object is equal to one half the mass of that object multiplied by the velocity of the object squared (1/2 mv2). In general, a somewhat lighter object traveling at high speed will cause more damage than a heavier object traveling at low speed." emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overviewThere's TONS of research online into this kind of stuff. We're going to have to agree to disagree because we're derailing the thread. You're quoting autopsy research and applying it to Airsoft. Think about that for a second. Yes, because the laws of physics decide to change when we go bbwarz. But whatever, there's no point in continuing it.
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Post by Tank on Mar 13, 2015 22:35:31 GMT -5
Um. So you just prooved yourself wrong then. Higher speed, lighter object > slower speed, heavier object. This isn't really the discussion though at hand, more of a side curiosity. How does that prove me wrong? My point was that more energy = more pain. It had nothing to do with the objects. Sorry, I thought you were trying to argue it was only joules that determined pain.
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