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Post by luke213 on Jan 26, 2015 21:56:42 GMT -5
So guys another somewhat dumb question but one I've never had much need to consider till lately. I've upgraded my sniper rifle most of the way I'd like to get it, but it brought up another issue. When carrying a primary normally I'd carry a GBB backup, but since it's winter and that's not really an option I'm looking at other ways to carry a backup. The last game we played I went out with just the bolt action rifle, and while it was great once they moved in closer than I could shoot which meant I didn't have anything low power enough to shoot them. Another time I was trying to get over a ridge while hoping no one was hiding in any of the little hollows that I couldn't see into and were way too close to be able to shoot if someone popped up.
So that got me thinking about carrying another rifle, maybe even something small but ideally it would be my normal primary M4. I've got an MP5k that I used to hang around my neck on a single point, then put the short 25 round mag while locked in the gun into my mag pouch near my center line then put the velcro cover over it. Basically it would ride horizontally straight in front of me. This worked ok, not great but functional. Well in 8ish years I've misplaced or flat out lost that 25 round short mag, and the same setup doesn't work with a longer mag at all. I played around tonight with different combinations of 1, 2 and 3 point slings and the end result is that one is fine, 2 is just too damn many straps in the way no matter how I seemed to get them setup.
I understand there is only so much real estate on the body and carrying a full sized rifle along with a large sniper rifle is a bit of a feat anyways. But I'm curious if anyone else has stumbled on some sort of good solution. Best running idea so far is running my M4 with the 3 point in a backpack style(with a sling strap over each shoulder so it hangs muzzle down center of my back). Then running the sniper rifle sans sling and then transition by basically putting down the sniper rifle, pulling the M4 off my back and going with it. Downside is that it's not fast at all by any stretch of the imagination, and it means leaving the sniper rifle behind. I could sling the rifle and carry it but then it interferes with the sling on the other gun.
Maybe I'm overthinking it and there is some simple solution but that's the point of this thread;) I'm just not sure what the heck it would be. So guys who've done it or even tried it I'd love to hear any suggestions. This weekend I'll play another smaller game, and I'd like to be able to have some sort of backup gun rather than just the bolt action rifle. With these winter games I've been really enjoying the face that I can engage at much higher ranges with the sniper rifle than I normally can.
Take care!
Luke
EDIT: I should mention I'm not opposed to building something, those who don't know me, I'm a leather holster maker for a living. I've got lots of leather a huge sewing machine, some nylon strapping, kydex etc laying around the shop. I can fab up just about anything so long as I can think it up and know it will work:) So suggestions that require building something I'm also game for.
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Novak
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Post by Novak on Jan 26, 2015 22:49:56 GMT -5
I'm going to start of with saying that it can be done. I've done it myself. At a few of the recent games at Hell's Survivors, You would have seen me running around with a KJW M700 and a full size m14, or a short railed ak variant and a standalone grenade launcher. It is bulky and heavy, but if your of the taller and somewhat stronger variety, not terribly uncomfortable. The sniper and m14 combo was because I had just gotten the sniper and was still working all the kinks out and wanted a reliable backup on hand. I ended up running from cover to cover with a rifle in each hand, and just setting down one while using the other. Not the most convenient, but it worked. Now, the ak and the grenade launcher was for the game that had vehicles to be dealt with(grenade launchers with foam rockets could disable them). For that, I had the grenade launcher tucked in a scabbard that was designed for an AR sized rifle which was slung along my non dominant side like a messenger bag. If you can get your hands on a rifle scabbard(not the shotgun ones), you could tuck your second rifle in that while either slinging the scabbard so that you can move it around or remove it at will, or you could attach it via molle to the back of a plate carrier. I've done both of these variations and while it takes some getting used to, I prefer the slinging method.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 26, 2015 23:02:06 GMT -5
I'll have to look at the scabbard option. One of the reasons I hate to set one rifle down is the depth of the snow right now. Where we're playing we're talking 2-3 feet of snow cover;) So if I put down the sniper rifle I'll very likely end up with snow on the scope which is a pain to get clear out while playing. Same issue with the red dot but it's less of an issue with backup iron sights. So I'm interested mostly in ways to keep them on body.
Also in thinking and playing around with it more, I was prone a fair bit last game which means either my MP5k if I figured out a way to carry in the front would have been loaded with snow so back would be preferred.
That said I did figure out one way that could work, it's not ideal but it's workable. I kept the m4 on the 3 point behind me in I believe they call it patrol carry style head and right arm through. With it setup that way it rides pretty comfortably on my back. While carrying the bolt gun in hand slung it on the left shoulder, then move the 3 point over my head leaving it hang on my right shoulder. Then moving the sniper rifle 2 point over my head securing it on my back, then moving the 3 point back over my head. That left me with my M4 in a fairly normal 3 point config(I used to run that setup allot because I cross drew my GBB). And my rifle fairly secure on my back. It's clunky but a possibility of a working option to carry both.
I will say in my testing I need to clear some bulk off my M4, currently it's setup with a light/laser combo, vertical grip, large battery zip tied to my front rails since I can't find my PEQ and that's allot of bulk on a full metal CA:) So I might have to de-bulk the gun a bit for a backup. Thinking hard about stripping it down to bare bones just to make it more snag resistant in this setup.
Still brings about some interesting options and things to try. I'm also considering trying my G36c in this setup, it's a bit more bare bones and still ranges nearly as well as my M4. Perk is that it's allot smaller folded but still a fair sized/weighted gun.
Either way still interested in hearing other experiences and options since it's up in the air yet;)
Luke
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Simon
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Posts: 379
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Post by Simon on Jan 26, 2015 23:23:58 GMT -5
For a while I ran with my M4 as primary with my L96 as secondary. I had the L96 on a 2 point sling with the barrel down across my back. I would move with my squad with the M4 and when we hit heavy fighting I would set it down and use the L96 for hvts or anyone outside normal aeg range. I liked that set up because I could "throw" the L96 behind me and pick up the M4 with no trouble. Much easier than slinging the m4 and dropping the rifle on close up contact.
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Post by voodoo on Jan 27, 2015 6:15:25 GMT -5
I agree with Wraith. It's much easier to run the M4 as a "primary" with the long rifle on your back. This allows you to engage targets better while moving. If you're out on your own without squad movements then maybe try the MP5K on a shoulder sling and carrying the rifle.
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Post by Zorak on Jan 27, 2015 9:44:19 GMT -5
This sounds more like a job for an AEP, unless they stopped making them when I wasn't looking.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 27, 2015 9:52:37 GMT -5
I was thinking aep possibly but I've never used one and I'm just I guess unfamiliar with how well they actually function. I remember when they came out I wasn't playing but heard about them. Now though I haven't seen or read much about them lately seems like they either didn't work as well as guys wanted or just fell out of favor but either way if they work well I'd be game to look into one.
I almost bought one of the cyma glock 18 tm clones last week because it was only $30 but I waited and it went down the road. So maybe I'll have to keep my eye out for one of those for sale cheap. I'd rather pick up a TM but the budget just isn't there for airsoft at the moment. I might sell a couple guns from my collection to fund some new projects but we'll see.
Luke
Looks like what I was seeing is the Glock 18 AEP isn't very available at all can't find it on Redwolf at least and WGC which is who I used to use doesn't list any TM guns anymore. But on Redwolf it looks like Beretta variants and a 1911 double stack, so at least for me the 1911 would be an option but the price is a touch out of my range right this minute but it might be the best answer.
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Post by Zorak on Jan 27, 2015 13:54:36 GMT -5
Wow, shame they stopped making the TM G18c. The ROF wasn't so great on the internal batteries but the hop was quite good. Mine was the most accurate shooting pistol I had. As a cold weather sidearm for use inside 50ft I'd have no hesitation recommending it. As a primary weapon for CQB games the small battery would be a real worry, though.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 27, 2015 14:06:23 GMT -5
Yeah I was rather surprised, when they came out I read a fair bit about them and there was a ton of excitement about them being the winter sidearm answer. But at the time I hadn't played in a few years and couldn't justify spending anything on a gun. Now coming back at it even more years later I'm a little surprised to see that they haven't been as big as I expected. I figured everyone would have one by now;) That was a big part of my concern, I can't find much of guys saying bad things about them. But still it made me cautious since TM seems to have backed away from them a bit too, or at least they are harder to find. It does seem like the whole market though has changed and moved away from TM stuff, even though it's still as good as ever from what I've seen it seems like the cheap gun market has pretty much taken over. And really I don't think that's a bad thing, but if I were starting out again I started with TM guns and they were great, just awesome reliable guns. And I think that's a great place to start even with a plastic body, but now that I know my way around internals I don't mind fixing some of the roughness of a cheaper gun with a few bells and whistles as well. But even with that I still very much appreciate the TM's in my collection for being super reliable, and just great shooting guns. That G35c has some upgrades but at heart it's still a TM and it's one of the best shooting guns of that size I've ever seen. I'm tempted to get rid of it since I'm not really a G36 guy but it shoots so well that I hate to get rid of it;)
I'm going to do some more digging into that 1911 that TM made/makes in the AEP. I love 1911's I'm a little leery of that action and the style, wish it was a standard double stack rig with normal dimensions and no rail. My only real draw to a standard 1911 is holsters, I like to use my airsoft for some what a training handgun and I have over 25 holsters for 1911's(being a holster maker has it's perks;) and if I swap to something non standard I'll have to build out some rigs specific to that gun rather than normal 1911 rigs I already have.
That said I've been considering building some purpose built kydex setups for loadouts anyways so it won't hurt to be different but if it were the same I could use my same gear for airsoft with my real steel setup as well;)
Choices choices. I'll also look into the CO2 stuff a little more since that's already available, but the idea of a small AEP is very very interesting. I don't figure I need more than 30-100 rounds give or take for the role I see it fitting into. I can conserve ammo as needed for the application.
Luke
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Post by Zorak on Jan 27, 2015 14:45:07 GMT -5
WGC has 'em, they just call 'em Marui and not TM in their system.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 27, 2015 14:50:07 GMT -5
Ha that's good news, they always used to stock TM and I thought it was weird I wasn't seeing them listed by brand but I didn't think about looking under M just did a quick check then went on.
I'll have to look them over again, I always liked WGC they were reliable and did well even if stuff took forever to get here.
Luke
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Post by Puma1 on Jan 27, 2015 22:04:42 GMT -5
I used to carry a p90 as a secondary when I was using a VSR. I had Hunt make me a flap to stick the gun into and then Velcro to close it. At the time I ran a dump pouch on my leg, so securing the p90 on the small of my back gave my full motion.
What in thinking is basically a belt clip that the mp5 can 'click' or secure into. It won't wobble when you run but it will be easily accessible.
I can draw up a picture if I need to.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 27, 2015 22:10:10 GMT -5
I'd be curious to see a pic.
My thought if I do the MP5 is figuring out a kydex "holster" lacking a better term that it would lock into from the front, then coming straight out the front for the draw. Maybe some velcro as a safety strap of sorts once it's locked in. But the downside I think will be the length of the mag. I should order up a short mag for it, but it seems like those just aren't very common anymore either. Wish I could find mine but between moving and so many years I suspect it's gone for good.
On the plus side I just got a bunch more m4 mags in today;) But that doesn't help for this situation.
Luke
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Post by Puma1 on Jan 27, 2015 22:25:12 GMT -5
So: www.evike.com/products/31061/ Short mags. I'm trying to find all of my stuff now. I haven't used the setup in months so it's buried in my "airsoft junk" bin.
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Post by luke213 on Jan 27, 2015 22:58:49 GMT -5
That's even better being 65 rounds that's actually about perfect for my needs, as a backup.
I did have a little breakthrough though with your mention it gave me an idea. I like slings, I've used them on airsoft guns for years, hate being without them. So G36 on a single point with my head and left shoulder through the sling I can slide the gun around behind me but it's floppy and won't stay put. Well I put a little loop of para cord on the front sling mount with a quick disconnect attached. Then attached a quick disconnect to my lower rung of molle on my vest behind my back. So I can more less secure the muzzle across my lower back it carries horizontally and with the stock folded stays out of the way pretty well.
I'll likely change it up more but this is the first option that works well so far, I might try the same thing with the MP5k as well but it might be too small to reach across easily. We'll see just happy to have some sort of break through on this;)
Still interested in seeing what you've got setup as well though because other ideas are welcome.
Luke
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