Your favorite, most reliable sidearm?

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

Renamed from 'A reliable, affordable sidearm - First hand experience?'

Sorry if the title is lacking proper explanation and seems vague.

I have been on the hunt for a new sidearm. I've been doing research, getting familiar with what are the good makes, CO2 vs Green Gas/Propane, and so on. In somewhat of a result to my research, here's what I'm looking for;


-Green Gas/Propane based(bonus if it accepts CO2 mags but not necessary)
-Trades don't matter to me, so long as they're not stupid. I don't mind if there's white trades, or engraved trades, or none at all, as long as it doesn't say 'THIS BRAND' in some retarded color/font/location on it.
-Full metal, Blow Back. I don't care about trades, but for realism, it needs to have some weight, and it needs to kick back. Plastic NBB is not for me.
-Durable(I am careful with my stuff, but I'm a little negligent when it comes to cleaning/lubing my guns. If I know how to do it, I will. Otherwise it will sit there between games, so first hand users might be able to help me out with that)
-Proven and Reliable out of the box.
-Efficient, or moddable to fix known issues(like modding WEs to use less gas)
-Affordable. For the sidearm itself+Extra mag+Propane adapter, I'm looking at a budget of roughly $160 tops, give or take.

As far as based on which sidearm design, this is what I think.

-1911: By far my favorite, but I have a quirk with them; I HATE mags that stick out the bottom, and a lot of 1911s use those. I would only consider something that uses mags that are flush with the bottom of the grip. I'm currently looking at the KJW Single Stack 1911, but am not very fond of the GI style sights. I do NOT want WE/SOCOM Gear(the WE Desert Warrior 4.3 looks awesome as hell, and the SOCOM Gear 1911s are equally good looking, but I don't want another throwaway), and KWA is a little past my price range.
-P226: I like 'em. KJW makes one, but apparently the stock mags suck and I'd have to find TM mags for it, which are $50 a pop.
-MK23 SOCOM/USP: I like 'em as well, but price tag seems a little high. Need more info on these.
-Glocks/Timberwolf: Meh. I used to hate 'em, until I held a Timberwolf. Still not super fond of them, but might consider.
-P229/Other P22X variants: Probably not, unless there's one that fits my criteria exactly.
-M9: Not interested. Awesome design, but can't get over size of trigger guard.
-FN Five-seveN: Looks like a toy. One of the best handgun designs in years apparently, but not interested.
-Revolvers & Mausers: Not interested.

As the title says, I am looking for first hand experience! I don't want anything that starts with 'A friend of mine...' or 'X Famous Youtuber uses one' and so on.
I can deal with possibly having to mod it to make it better, but only if the price tag is low enough. I refuse to buy a $140+ sidearm that I have to send to a tech in order to use. I'm not looking to buy right away(no $$$), just want some concrete evidence of a reliable, proven sidearm.

Oh, as a side note, I'm pretty sure most of you on here know that when I say 'first hand experience', I mean someone who's owned one and used it for a good amount of time. I don't mean 'I got it in the mail yesterday and it looks cool!', or 'I used it for the first time last weekend, it was good!'(however the opposite, as in 'I just got it yesterday and it's a POS' or 'I used it for the first time and it fell apart' are totally welcome).

Sorry if I come out as an asshole. I'm really not, and am proud to say I'm one of the nicest guys I know. I just lose my goddamn marbles when people threadcrap on me and waste my time, only to boost their post count(thank Yahoo Answers for that).

[Knief]

So, it might help if you told us what's getting in the way of you making your decision. What information do you feel you're lacking to make a good choice? I've owned some version of most of these guns and they all have their pros and cons, but I can't say that I'm too interested in writing up a full review on every GBB I've ever owned at the moment. So what do you feel like you still need to know?

FYI, when it comes to 1911s, you can use any KJW 1911 mags (as long as they're the correct length) in any of the KJW 1911s. The same goes for pretty much any brand and any model (KSC glocks will fit all KSC glock mags, as long as the mag is long enough to reach the mag catch), with the only exceptions being when a brand updates an old model of GBB, the older mags typically won't fit the newer guns (my old KSC M9 "hardkick" mags won't fit the KSC M9 System 7). So if you want a modern looking 1911, but flush sitting mags, you can do that. You'll just have that one stock mag that came with the gun, and it'd be pretty easy to sell it or trade it for an older style mag without the bumper.

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

May 8, 2014 10:15:24 GMT -5 Knief said:

So, it might help if you told us what's getting in the way of you making your decision. What information do you feel you're lacking to make a good choice? I've owned some version of most of these guns and they all have their pros and cons, but I can't say that I'm too interested in writing up a full review on every GBB I've ever owned at the moment. So what do you feel like you still need to know?

FYI, when it comes to 1911s, you can use any KJW 1911 mags (as long as they're the correct length) in any of the KJW 1911s. The same goes for pretty much any brand and any model (KSC glocks will fit all KSC glock mags, as long as the mag is long enough to reach the mag catch), with the only exceptions being when a brand updates an old model of GBB, the older mags typically won't fit the newer guns (my old KSC M9 "hardkick" mags won't fit the KSC M9 System 7). So if you want a modern looking 1911, but flush sitting mags, you can do that. You'll just have that one stock mag that came with the gun, and it'd be pretty easy to sell it or trade it for an older style mag without the bumper.

I basically just want to know if there's a general consensus as to whats a good candidate for the most universal, reliable sidearm. I'm basically looking for the G&G CM of sidearms. I'm pretty sure there's a specific model out there that a majority if people would agree on.

As far as KJW's mag compatibility, I'm pretty sure their single stack and double stack mags don't interchange, since the single stack mags are half the width, aren't they? I would also rather have a out-of-the-box package instead of having to buy 2 flush bottom mags. That COULD be an option, but more of a last resort than my ideal solution.

Basically, out of all the GBBs you've owned, which one would you rate highest based on my criteria? Reliability being the main thing.

[inj]

May 8, 2014 13:30:12 GMT -5 Vic (Rattlehead) said:

May 8, 2014 10:15:24 GMT -5 Knief said:

So, it might help if you told us what's getting in the way of you making your decision. What information do you feel you're lacking to make a good choice? I've owned some version of most of these guns and they all have their pros and cons, but I can't say that I'm too interested in writing up a full review on every GBB I've ever owned at the moment. So what do you feel like you still need to know?

FYI, when it comes to 1911s, you can use any KJW 1911 mags (as long as they're the correct length) in any of the KJW 1911s. The same goes for pretty much any brand and any model (KSC glocks will fit all KSC glock mags, as long as the mag is long enough to reach the mag catch), with the only exceptions being when a brand updates an old model of GBB, the older mags typically won't fit the newer guns (my old KSC M9 "hardkick" mags won't fit the KSC M9 System 7). So if you want a modern looking 1911, but flush sitting mags, you can do that. You'll just have that one stock mag that came with the gun, and it'd be pretty easy to sell it or trade it for an older style mag without the bumper.

I basically just want to know if there's a general consensus as to whats a good candidate for the most universal, reliable sidearm. I'm basically looking for the G&G CM of sidearms. I'm pretty sure there's a specific model out there that a majority if people would agree on.

As far as KJW's mag compatibility, I'm pretty sure their single stack and double stack mags don't interchange, since the single stack mags are half the width, aren't they? I would also rather have a out-of-the-box package instead of having to buy 2 flush bottom mags. That COULD be an option, but more of a last resort than my ideal solution.

Basically, out of all the GBBs you've owned, which one would you rate highest based on my criteria? Reliability being the main thing.

First off, you're not looking for the CM of sidearms. There are better options for less, but that's for another time. We don't need a CM argument here.

I can personally recommend the KJW P226. Yeah, the mag leaks, but it's an insanely easy fix. take two pins out, soak the O-ring in silicon (or get a new O-ring. It's like $1) and put the two pins back in. And they've been getting better with mags. The one that came with my 226 leaked, but the extra I bought works great with no mods at all done to it.

The gun itself feels and shoots great. It's got a nice crisp blowback and is accurate up to around 120ft. (It may be more, I generally don't practice at distances like that.) Gas efficiency is great as long as you properly clean and oil the gun.

Overall, it's really a great gun. There's no reason not to get it.

You really can't go wrong with any KJW.

[Knief]

There isn't a specific model that the majority of people would say is the most reliabile. That's what's so great about the world of GBBs, there's just damn many of them. And no brand is perfect either, though TM is coming the closest these days. They all have their trade offs. KJWs are cheap and perform well, but they're fuck ugly. KSC's are great shooters and pretty good lookers, but they're expensive. KWAs are good lookers and performers, but they're not terribly reliable. TMs, much like KSCs, perform great, look great, and are reliable, but they're expensive. WAs are the prettiest things that run on gas, but they're more fragile and very expensive. These are all generalizations of course and different models from each brand also have their own unique traits--KJW hasn't changed their M9 design in like a decade, so they're far less reliable than other KJW pistols, KSC's STI line has always been incredibly fragile, while most of the rest of their products are pretty robust, etc. There isn't a single best, you have to make choices about which features you want and which you don't. The best thing you can do is pick a model that you really like and then work on finding out who makes the best version for you.

Case in point, I wanted a P226. I didn't want to spend a ton on it because I had other priorities for my cash, which ruled out the TM, easily the best P226 on the market. I wanted something reliable, while at the same time I didn't mind a little routine magazine leak fixing, which ruled out the KWA. I didn't much mind if it was ugly, I just wanted the style and I wanted it to shoot straight. Thus, I got the KJW. If instead, I had wanted to burn more cash and get better performance, I would have gone with the TM. Or if I didn't mind the chance of having to replace parts in the future and wanted something better looking, I would have gone with the KWA. Out of those three P226s, there's a set of values that would make each one the best pick.

Yes, double stack mags won't fit single stack pistols and vice versa. I left that out because it's kind of obvious. Buying and selling GBB mags is just about the easiest thing you can do, everybody is always looking for mags. Don't let that hold you back.

[edit]

INJ posted while I was typing

You definitely can go wrong with a KJW. Want something that looks pretty? Not a KJW. Want the most assuredly reliable pistol? Not a KJW. Want the best performer? Not a KJW. KJW is a budget brand with a budget product. They've done it right by making their stuff reasonably reliable and good performers (WE should take notes), but they're not the be all end all, and in most cases I would recommend something better. Please stop drinking the Airsoft Society Kool-Aid, most of the information passed around over there is dubious at best, and almost always heavily biased and under-informed.

[bobbunny]

With the Tokyo Marui M1911A1, while it is a more dated look, the mags fit flush with the bottom, and they have a huge capacity (26 rounds). A little pricey compared to, say, KJW or WE-Crap, but a used one will only run you $10-$20 more than retail for one of those, with the ability to last twice as long.

[inj]

May 8, 2014 14:15:24 GMT -5 Knief said:

[edit]

INJ posted while I was typing

You definitely can go wrong with a KJW. Want something that looks pretty? Not a KJW. Want the most assuredly reliable pistol? Not a KJW. Want the best performer? Not a KJW. KJW is a budget brand with a budget product. They've done it right by making their stuff reasonably reliable and good performers (WE should take notes), but they're not the be all end all, and in most cases I would recommend something better. Please stop drinking the Airsoft Society Kool-Aid, most of the information passed around over there is dubious at best, and almost always heavily biased and under-informed.

You're right. I guess I'm used to all the kids with no money over on AS. For them, there's nothing better. Cheap, mostly reliable (plenty for how often most use it), and have plenty of parts available. Over here on the other hand, you guys seem to have more money, like stuff more realistic, and also run guns harder. You seem to be the shady over here , so I guess I'll leave you to it.

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

So 2 votes for the KJW 226, and 1 for TM 226.

Any 1911 recommendations? Ignoring the thick bottom mags(as long as there's flat bottom ones available), what's reliable and affordable? I was also leaning on KJW for this unless someone else has an opinion on this?

[Knief]

There are no votes for anything. I'm not sure you've understood me, there are a number of excellent GBB pistols on the market. We're not going to be able to guide you further until you can identify more clearly what you want. You've listed half a dozen different models that you like, and of each there are at least 3-4 suitable choices available, depending on your criteria. What we don't know is your criteria. If you can't articulate that, then we can't help you. In that case, you would be best served by doing more independent research. Start on www.justpistols.co.uk, it's the best GBB pistol review sites out there.

[Outlaw]

I love my timberwolf. Ugly as all heck but it has been nothing but reliable, many others on SK run this as a sidearm as well. Mags are super cheap $18 full metal $16 poly on evike.com, It also feels similar to a 1911 in the hand as you may know having handled one before. I will however strongly advise you to save for the TM 226 as that is an outstandingly excellent sidearm( TM makes some of the best gbb systems for sidearms around). Your best bet is to save for a TM 226, if you feel its not your thing just know the resale value is supurb, so you shouldnt be out a bunch of cash. Just my 2 cents. Happy hunting!

[Gabriel]

I have had a KJW G23, a KWA M9, and a KWA 1911 MKIV. Of the 3, I can say I liked the G23 the best. My M9 is performs amazing, has great gas efficiency, and is overall a great gun. The only issue is that in order for it to perform to its potential, you have to clean it meticulously, watch the temperature, take it to dinner, buy it expensive clothes, make sure it gets off, treat it like a queen, and always agree with it. My 1911 is the same way. So I will say KWA is great for out of the box performance, but be ready to do basic maintenance (cleaning) a lot. I cleaned my KJW twice before I sold it. I never saw a drop in performance. Its performance wasn't amazing, mind you, but it was a work horse. What your asking is difficult to answer, since there really is no Combat Machine of GBB Pistols. Knief is right, KJW is a good place to look if you have a budget, but not the best brand for performance.

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

May 8, 2014 21:54:19 GMT -5 Knief said:

There are no votes for anything. I'm not sure you've understood me, there are a number of excellent GBB pistols on the market. We're not going to be able to guide you further until you can identify more clearly what you want. You've listed half a dozen different models that you like, and of each there are at least 3-4 suitable choices available, depending on your criteria. What we don't know is your criteria. If you can't articulate that, then we can't help you. In that case, you would be best served by doing more independent research. Start on www.justpistols.co.uk, it's the best GBB pistol review sites out there.

You're helping more than you think. Essentially, I was looking for reviews of the most praised models, budget wise, of the 1911, P226 and Glocks.

I might've been vague, but my criteria is there; affordable, reliable, proven, Green gas/propane powered and Full metal, GBB. That brings me to the next reply;

May 8, 2014 22:00:26 GMT -5 Outlaw said:

I love my timberwolf. Ugly as all heck but it has been nothing but reliable, many others on SK run this as a sidearm as well. Mags are super cheap $18 full metal $16 poly on evike.com, It also feels similar to a 1911 in the hand as you may know having handled one before. I will however strongly advise you to save for the TM 226 as that is an outstandingly excellent sidearm( TM makes some of the best gbb systems for sidearms around). Your best bet is to save for a TM 226, if you feel its not your thing just know the resale value is supurb, so you shouldnt be out a bunch of cash. Just my 2 cents. Happy hunting!

I handled a Timberwolf at the last Rec Game at No Limits and I liked it. I like the price of the mags, sounds good, but I'm getting somewhat sold on the 226. However I am not interested in TM. I have nor the money, nor the interest in a plastic sidearm. I have nothing against polymers(I have a G&G CM and I love it), but for a sidearm I prefer full metal. That and financially, I am very limited right now(job searching), so the TM isn't for me.

May 8, 2014 22:53:14 GMT -5 Gabriel said:

I cleaned my KJW twice before I sold it. I never saw a drop in performance. Its performance wasn't amazing, mind you, but it was a work horse. What your asking is difficult to answer, since there really is no Combat Machine of GBB Pistols. Knief is right, KJW is a good place to look if you have a budget, but not the best brand for performance.

That's what I'm looking for. A work horse. I never asked for performance. I got my G&G because by overwhelming majority, everyone said it was reliable, and it has been nothing but. KJW seems like the best option for my budget, and even though I'm not super fond of the 226's trigger(looks way too far forward, but then again, I'm a 1911 fan), I'm liking the reviews it's getting. I'm strongly leaning towards that one right now.

[inj]

Just so you know, the 226s trigger goes back about half way when cocked. It has a nice short trigger pull.

And though knief is right about KJWs not always being a good choice, it looks to me like your best option. The only other one that I know of that is full metal and affordable is the WE, and that's a bad choice.

Knief, correct me if I'm missing something or giving false information.

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

Alright, I think I've come to a decision. As Gabriel and inj told me, I'm going to go for the KJW P226. I'll update when I get it, so expect a necro-post in a few weeks!

[UPDATE]

Derp I just realized the KJW 226 is TM based, so the market for aftermarket parts is plentiful! That makes me happy, because that means I can actually fix/upgrade this thing once it does go bad.

I also found a guy selling a KJW P226 and a KJW 1911 Tactical for $150. Normally, I'd be tempted to bite(what a deal!), but being that I'm looking for a new sidearm BECAUSE my first was a 'deal', I think I'll pass. Here's the link to whoever is interested: toledo.craigslist.org/tag/4442094929.html

If someone follows through with the deal, it'd be cool if you could let me know how it turns out, I'm wondering if this guy is legit. The 1911 looks like it's missing the front sight and a grip screw, so I don't know how much more is wrong with the pair.