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JG Gears?
Apr 7, 2014 13:29:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by racoon2014 on Apr 7, 2014 13:29:19 GMT -5
Alright, as I progress on my way to be knowledgeable with Airsmithing, I was wondering about quality in gears/things in the gearbox.
I just bought a JG M4A1 so I can massively upgrade it, but I was wondering about the quality of the gears or other internals such as the piston, piston head, or the air nozzle. How does JG compare to a larger brand? What are a few good brands I could put into the gearbox, such as G&P, Systema, APS, or Guarder? How do they all match up?
I'm just wondering because I am looking to make the gun more reliable and so it wouldn't break as fast. Any other suggestions on how to do so? Metal Tooth piston, Piston Head, etc....
Sorry for another thread, but MiA is really helpful. Thanks!
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Post by dizzyshot (Bad Company) on Apr 7, 2014 13:44:13 GMT -5
I own a JG M4 as well and it runs real well. Some things to note though is that it can have FPS "Hops". What I mean by this is that at on time it may shoot 345 and all of the sudden its shooting 365 the next time you use it. I don't know how to explain this "hop" as I have never upgraded my gun internally except that I'm going to have a new spring installed soon, but only to lower the FPS for CQB. I'm going to keep following this thread myself for I can see what others have to say on the matter.
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Post by Deacon on Apr 8, 2014 19:24:28 GMT -5
Rule #1 for New players: Don't fix it or mod it until it's broken.
Also: Buy a parts gearbox that's broken or locked up and learn on that before you create a large headache for yourself.
FPS "Hops" as you call them Dizzyshot are related to compression issues. This can occur in: Piston O-ring and the mating of your Hop-Up unit and air nozzle. Some recommend stretching out your current o-ring by placing it over the cylinder and heating it up. It's more reliable to just order a larger o-ring for extremely solid compression.
The best way to test your compression is to remove the cylinder components vital to testing your air seal: Piston/head, Cylinder/head. Push the piston into the cylinder with a finger covering the piston head end where you slide an air nozzle over. If you have no resistance or very little resistance, your air seal is poor. Add a new larger O-ring and then repeat. You won't be able to go very far before the cylinder is full of air providing resistance. Your FPS will be more consistant.
When it comes to mating the air nozzle with the hop-up I completely ditch the hop up spring that puts pressure on to the hop-up. I use multiple O-rings, shimming slowly until there is zero play between the gearbox and the hop up unit. This insures that as much air as possible is directed at the bb and out.
As far as JG internals go:
Some have said that JG Gears are "soft." They're a standard ratio. I've ran them on High speed, High Torque, M140+ springs and have had zero issues. The JG Blue Motor (M41) is an excellent stock motor and is a neodymium motor(Strong.) Again I have pulled M140+ springs on these.
All of the other nick nacks on the interior (plastic doodads) Air nozzle, Tappet plate, Trigger assembly(trolly) Selector plate, springs etc are just as good as anything you can buy if not better.
The JG Boxes also have the equivalent of an M120 spring and these days the springs tend to NOT lose their coil power over time. Backing the spring is a METAL Spring guide rod.
Pending on what model M4 you have you may also have Metal bushings or bearings(7 or 8mm)
They are great boxes and once shimmed, lubed and o-ring swapped you're solid.
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Post by dizzyshot (Bad Company) on Apr 8, 2014 20:08:17 GMT -5
... FPS "Hops" as you call them Dizzyshot are related to compression issues. This can occur in: Piston O-ring and the mating of your Hop-Up unit and air nozzle. Some recommend stretching out your current o-ring by placing it over the cylinder and heating it up. It's more reliable to just order a larger o-ring for extremely solid compression. The best way to test your compression is to remove the cylinder components vital to testing your air seal: Piston/head, Cylinder/head. Push the piston into the cylinder with a finger covering the piston head end where you slide an air nozzle over. If you have no resistance or very little resistance, your air seal is poor. Add a new larger O-ring and then repeat. You won't be able to go very far before the cylinder is full of air providing resistance. Your FPS will be more consistant. When it comes to mating the air nozzle with the hop-up I completely ditch the hop up spring that puts pressure on to the hop-up. I use multiple O-rings, shimming slowly until there is zero play between the gearbox and the hop up unit. This insures that as much air as possible is directed at the bb and out... Okay well I had a tech tell me to just get a lower spring and have it installed so that's what I'm doing. Hopefully he's right and it's not the Pistons O-ring. Could this also explain why after about 5 shots in semi it won't fire until I place it into full auto? Sorry if this is considered thread jacking as well. |
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Post by Deacon on Apr 8, 2014 20:16:38 GMT -5
That's a selector issue, possibly cutoff. As far as the spring theory: Think about it, how would a different spring affect your compression? I've been working on Airsoft AEG's and GBBRs for the better part of 10 years now. I don't mean to be an ass but: A lot of techs I've run across don't know what they're talking about. Ask around. A lot of people around here can vouch  |
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Post by dizzyshot (Bad Company) on Apr 8, 2014 20:23:57 GMT -5
That's a selector issue, possibly cutoff. As far as the spring theory: Think about it, how would a different spring affect your compression? I've been working on Airsoft AEG's and GBBRs for the better part of 10 years now. I don't mean to be an ass but: A lot of techs I've run across don't know what they're talking about. Ask around. A lot of people around here can vouch Well not to crap on KA's tech mags, but I don't believe he knows what he's doing much either. Thank you though and I guess if anybody else runs into this problem with JG internals then they got some answers and solutions to the problem or any normal internals for that matter. |
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Post by racoon2014 on Apr 8, 2014 22:14:10 GMT -5
This is the gun I bought: www.ebay.com/itm/141075314581?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649More on the expensive side, I know, but I figured "why not?" Thought it would be a nice gun to upgrade over time to make it a solid blaster. It also has that classic M4A1 look that I really wanted. Cool stuff man. Just curious about the gear question though; say I did want to upgrade, and I decided to run harder standard ratio gears (not wanting higher ROF, but a solid SEMI shooter) what brands would be better than JG? Like what is the baseline that I should get? I'm not going to change the M120 spring, hopefully it settles around 390 FPS. Anyway, I've seen APS gears run for $25 and and new gearbox setup (tappet, gears, and piston; but I'm not going to redo the whole gearbox) for like $40-$50. But if they are junk, I'd want to know so I can buy the quality stuff. Also, what MM are the bearings are in my gun? I may be overlooking it, but I couldn't see it. Also what should I get if I ran harder gears? ie, metal tooth piston, or a plastic tooth piston. Just want to be as educated as possible incase stuff happens. Thanks! Is there any prewritten guide to all this knowledge? Because that would actually be amazing, and save a bunch of time for my questions. But I'm sorry if non of this makes sense, its almost night, and I've been writing and rewriting this for about an hour. |
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Snarf
New Member
Ambidextrous selector switches are the bane of my existence
Posts: 560
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Post by Snarf on Apr 9, 2014 8:16:02 GMT -5
Most clone gearboxes have generic "X" brand gears which are of average quality. Everything I've read says that the gears are the one if the last things you need to worry about. Do your basic mods first (shim, aoe, rewire) then upgrade other things if you want to get higher performance. New gears aren't necessary unless you're going for a build that puts a lot of stress on the gb (high speed or high power) where you need low or high ratio gears, respectively. For these upgrades Siegetek gears are by far the best (according to airsoftmechanics forum, they're the only truly reliable gearsets). I haven't heard of "Amp" gears so I can't comment on the quality.
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JG Gears?
Apr 9, 2014 10:22:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by racoon2014 on Apr 9, 2014 10:22:25 GMT -5
APS. I'll post a link later.
Okay. So basically don't buy any real upgrades yet. Guess I'll be on the lookout for a locked up gearbox for cheap to experiment with.
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ctres
New Member
Posts: 955
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Post by ctres on Apr 9, 2014 11:13:16 GMT -5
Deacon has some very good points. I'd recommend you heed his advice. There is no reason to replace the gears in a JG, or most guns for that matter if you plan on keeping it at or below stock power levels. Gears mostly strip from improper use, not from normal wear and tear. Pistons on the other hand can strip much more readily out of the box if the AoE is not corrected, particularly if you use a more powerful battery than the stock one. Even so, if you've never opened a gearbox before then you are bound to mess something up. We've all pretty much done that the first time around, and it is something you should accept if you are going to go digging. This is why Deacon recommended that you start with an already broken gearbox to experiment with. Seriously though, the questions in this thread can be easily answered with some reasonable searching. The "tech" section here seems like it is constantly full of people asking the same questions over and over, but if you are looking for a single pre written guide it's not out there but I'd recommend browsing airsoft mechanics for many hours to get a feel for what's out there.
IF you do anything at all inside your gearbox, the BEST reliability upgrades you can do to a stock gearbox should cost you under $10 total. My list would be:
AoE correction with sorbo + remove 2nd and half of 3rd piston tooth
Re shim (way easier said than done. I love how everyone likes to oversimplify this one)
Re grease
I'd also like to comment that FPS can vary based on hop up application. Chronoing with hop on vs. off will usually give slightly different results.
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Post by Stinger on Apr 13, 2014 19:20:35 GMT -5
The "tech" section here seems like it is constantly full of people asking the same questions over and over... What would you expect? This section is the "Tech Questions" section, with an emphasis on the questions part of it. Honestly, the only interesting threads here are the ones where experienced techs share something new or very interesting. I would expect a lot of novice techs to post novice questions over and over again. |
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JG Gears?
Apr 15, 2014 22:43:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Coldwave on Apr 15, 2014 22:43:44 GMT -5
Personally I'd expect them to search for threads relevant to their question and read up on it rather than taking the easy way out and posting yet another topic.
But on topic leave the gearbox alone for now and get yourself a good barrel/hop up set up. Before anybody hops on the R-hop train look into maple leaf buckings. They give an excellent airseal between the barrel and hop up chamber, I'd recommend an H-nub as well. If your airseal is good between the cylinder and nozzle, then to the nozzle and hop up/barrel comple with a good bucking, nub, and tight bore you're all set. As long as it cycles well, has a decent fps, and good groupings you can't ask for much more.
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