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Post by Ogre on Feb 11, 2014 8:42:33 GMT -5
I have a scar from SkyPilot so I would just take his word for it. Remember when we we almost got into a fight at SFOD? Sent from my XT1080 using proboards I have a friend who has a scar on his neck from taking a shot from deputy's Bar 10 from 70ft.
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SkyPilot
New Member
Asshat - SkunkWorks Division
Posts: 911
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Post by SkyPilot on Feb 11, 2014 15:14:28 GMT -5
Oh my. I remember that day, and to think I shot you from about 60' away. Bare skin hurts like a mother!
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Post by X on Feb 11, 2014 15:22:43 GMT -5
Oh my. I remember that day, and to think I shot you from about 60' away. Bare skin hurts like a mother! Yeah, I was young and dumb. Amazing how much people change from ~19 to 25. Also amazing how some people stay exactly the same (referring to some of my high school friends). If I remember correctly though all was well after we discovered a mutual appreciation for Flogging Molly. Sent from my XT1080 using proboards
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Post by Ogre on Feb 11, 2014 15:30:44 GMT -5
X wins thread because of flogging molly.
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Post by Gimpalong on Feb 11, 2014 16:23:01 GMT -5
Futureball, I think the issue that you're running into here is that you're trying to impose your own standard where a standard already exists. Think about it this way - what would happen if you went on a paintball forum and advertised your field as having a maximum velocity of 400 FPS? Paintballers, who are very much used to a maximum FPS of between 280 and 300 for outdoor play, would definitely be questioning why your site has such a different standard than the rest of the United States. Airsoft, of course, is far less regulated by various industry and tournament groups than paintball, but there are still some general standards throughout the United States that place the maximum allowable outdoor FPS of an AEG capable of fully automatic fire at between 400 FPS and 450 FPS with .20s, with the majority hovering around the 400 FPS mark. The rationale that you are presenting for your field limits (450 FPS fully automatic later revised to 415 FPS, 550 FPS semi-automatic later revised to 460 FPS) seem to be: A) A desire to accommodate as many players as possible by making FPS limits broad. But we want everyone to have a good time so bring whatever kinds of airsoft weapons you have we will figure out ways to accommodate you. B) The belief that higher FPS limits are required because the field itself is so large. Look the reason we allow such high limits is because our fields are gigantic... Just keep in mind some of our fields are the biggest around and if I'm not mistaken out largest field is approximately 20 acres. Well I think I will keep our standard engagements rules because [on] some of our fields that would be a joke... C) Desire of the field owner to allow upgraded guns on the field. The owner likes the fact that we allow higher limits because he thinks we wil get more high upgrade guns in. These rationales don't really stand up to close scrutiny. Allowing a higher FPS limit may allow more people to participate, but it also puts getting players onto the field above safety. Obviously, as a business, you want to accommodate as many people as possible by, for example, letting the beginner with the 415 FPS rifle onto the field when he, in other places, would not be able to use that rifle. Sure, this player is new, just bought a gun, wants to get to play with it and doesn't have the skill to downgrade it to under 400 FPS. But the fact that this player is new also means that he might not properly understand engagement limits or he might overshoot opposing players in his enthusiasm. Both of those things are safety concerns and having higher FPS limits means that the chance for injury goes up. Someone being overshot or engaged too closely at 400 FPS is a problem, but at 460 or 500 FPS it becomes a real safety concern. Allowing a higher FPS limit because your field is so large shows a lack of knowledge about airsoft. As has been pointed out, higher velocities do not necessarily translate into increases in range. A variety of upgrades can allow airsoft guns to reach out to 200' or 250' while maintaining a velocity with .20s below 400 FPS. Do you allow your paintballers to increase their FPS beyond 300 FPS when they play on your field? Presumably, players simply maneuver to get into better firing positions when they find themselves out of range. The same is true for airsoft. People familiar with paintball seem to think that airsoft guns lack range, are only useful indoors or require tiny fields while the reality is that airsoft guns easily out-range paintball markers. Take a look at some of the major airsoft events hosted across the country - one of the things you will find is that many of them use enormous fields. Also, don't forget that many of us have played airsoft at Futureball (I have!) and didn't have an issue with field size. Lastly, as you can probably tell, you're getting a lot of feedback from experienced players with upgraded guns who don't want to participate at the FPS limits you've suggested. Very few experienced airsofters are upgrading their standard AEGs to shoot beyond the 400 FPS cap. Some folks shooting semi-automatic only "DMR" type rifles or bolt-action sniper rifles are doing this, but those are a minority and even they are remaining within the general limits laid down by most fields in Michigan. The reality is that most experienced airsofters engaged in upgrading their rifles are investing in ROF, consistency, reliability or range upgrades ("R-Hop," etc). Most experienced airsofters in Michigan are used to the 400 FPS with .20s limit and are tuning their guns to that limit rather than trying to exceed it since they actually want to be able to use their rifles on the field. In summary, rather than trying to press a standard that is vastly different from what most places in Michigan use, why not get on board with using the MiA standards that are nearly universal, in use by the vast majority of fields and have been proven safe by hundreds and hundreds of games over the last decade?
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Post by Twisted on Feb 11, 2014 18:42:27 GMT -5
In summary, rather than trying to press a standard that is vastly different from what most places in Michigan use, why not get on board with using the MiA standards that are nearly universal, in use by the vast majority of fields and have been proven safe by hundreds and hundreds of games over the last decade? This.
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Post by O'Dwah on Feb 11, 2014 19:02:01 GMT -5
Not to mention, the last time I played at Futureball (2006), a player (Embed) got his tooth shot out, and that was using the standard MiA guidelines.
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Post by Ogre on Feb 12, 2014 8:00:50 GMT -5
Not to mention, the last time I played at Futureball (2006), a player (Embed) got his tooth shot out, and that was using the standard MiA guidelines. Yep accidents still happen when following strict limits. No one likes for that kind of stuff to happen but it does, and it will happen more frequently with the ridiculous limits that Futureball has put in place.
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Post by Tank on Feb 12, 2014 9:19:24 GMT -5
The one thing you should really be learning from this thread is our desire to play at your field IF you revise your FPS limits and engagement distances. If we didn't give a darn about paying at your field, we wouldn't waste the time or the energy to explain why the rules you have in place are dangerous and unwarranted.
We are not trying to bash on you or your field, we are trying to get you to understand why those limits are dangerous for two reasons.
1. We would like the opportunity to host games at your field (if this happened I guarantee you would see huge turn-out, based on the hosts that have been commenting in this thread).
2. We care about the future of airsoft. At the limits and engagement distances you have outlined, it is simply unsafe and it will just be a matter of time before a serious accident occurs. The more serious accidents that occur, the closer airsoft is to being outlawed, or insurance companies refusing to insure you (which would be the same result).
As many others have started, without acceptance of the generally agreed upon statewide/country wide limits, I will never attend a game at your field either. I believe I can speak for the rest of my team in that same sentiment, as well.
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futureball
New Member
Retail store and Fields
Posts: 0
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Post by futureball on Feb 24, 2014 14:48:06 GMT -5
Well I appreciate all of your responses and i will relay the feedback to the owner, because it is his final say that matters but I was messages by a member who will not be named and I think we will basically, use your standards with the exception of the mask rule, I've been speaking with the owner and there is nothing I can do about them, but like I said earlier you can wear mesh lowers no problem, just full seal goggles and either a hard plastic or mesh lowers, no bandanas or neoprene. Also if you didn't know ahead of time we require barrel bags since we do usually cater to the younger crowd and we don't want people shot in our dead zone. But I do want to stress that we will get our limits at or near Mia standards, that being said if you are a bit over we may still be able to accommodate you. Another thing to the person who said all their teams guns are r-hopped and can shot super far, most of our players are in upgraded children who don't have guns that will shoot past 100 ft. I would consider this field a intermediate field with mostly novice players. But we will still accept feedback throughout the season and I will try and keep current limits and rules updated on the website.
Thanks for all your support and happy airsofting, Chris
Also breaking news, futureball has postponed opening weekend for one week, reasons haven't Ben explained to me yet but I wanted to posit ASAP. Sorry you guys! I wanna get out and play too.
As always happy airsofting, Chris
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Post by Twisted on Feb 24, 2014 15:59:00 GMT -5
*smiles*
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Post by Zorak on Feb 25, 2014 16:29:35 GMT -5
Chris, I was afraid we'd scared you off. Thanks for getting back to us, and especially thanks for keeping it safe.
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futureball
New Member
Retail store and Fields
Posts: 0
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Post by futureball on Feb 26, 2014 11:14:40 GMT -5
I don't scare off that easy haha. I've been playing airsoft since '06 and I won't let it die out in our community.
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futureball
New Member
Retail store and Fields
Posts: 0
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Post by futureball on Feb 26, 2014 11:26:32 GMT -5
Could I possibly have someone who knows how to r-hop come up and show me how they do it? I tried it once and I'm not sure why it didn't work.
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Post by Squirrel on Feb 26, 2014 11:52:04 GMT -5
Could I possibly have someone who knows how to r-hop come up and show me how they do it? I tried it once and I'm not sure why it didn't work. I don't claim to be an expert, but you will fail a few times before you get it right. If you do not make the cut perfect the first try, it is hard to get it right. Making some form of jig to hold it straight while sanding also makes a huge difference. Locate some 6mm round stock or a 6mm drill bit and wrap with sand paper to do your sanding. Slightly oversize is better than undersize. If I am ever up in the area, I'll do my best to show you how I do it. Some barrels have goofy barrel window cuts, and are difficult to r-hop. The AIM brand I did not have good luck with. Stock G&G brass barrels respond well with a stock hopup and soft green bucking. That is probably the best r-hop job I've done.
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