|
Post by Coldwave on Dec 31, 2013 10:33:33 GMT -5
Alright so tax refund times are steadily approaching and I want to buy something badass. Here's the problem I'm torn and would like the wise words of MiA to guide me. Here are my options, G&D DTW Pro's: changeable cylinders Reliable design Electronic fire unit Realism
Cons: Fucking mags Expensive Maintenance costs
G&P WOC challenge kit: Pro's: It's a fucking GBBR realistic Accurate Low start up cost
Con's: Putting the challenge kit together Again...fucking mags Gas in Michigan...eh
Polarstar: Obviously lots of pros
Cons: High start up costs
PTW, GBBR, and P* users chime in!
|
|
|
Post by Gunny87 on Dec 31, 2013 11:21:23 GMT -5
P* hands down. You'll get the best performance out of it between all of your choices while still being able to use your current AEGs body, magazines, hop up unit, and inner barrel. Now if you don't like carrying around a tank, you can use the tank that fits in the stock ($275 for kit) and gets you around 700 shots per fill.
The G&D DTW uses PTW parts, and while G&D DTW parts are a lot cheaper than Systema PTW parts and are readily available now you also have to go out and buy PTW magazines. And if you want to upgrade at least the inner barrel, go see how expensive a PDI PTW inner barrel is....
Guaranteed that $260 G&P WOC Challenge Kit is going to cost you more with magazines and long term ownership. Plus you can't use it all year.
|
|
|
Post by Coldwave on Dec 31, 2013 11:24:52 GMT -5
I'm leaning towards the p* haha I guess I'll have to just get over the sticker shock XD.
As for the DTW/CTW/PTW. How reliable are the gear sets? With the range of different cylinders available I would assume they are a high torque set?
|
|
|
Post by M.S.-ARC on Dec 31, 2013 11:30:37 GMT -5
If you want a GBBR, I wouldn't go with a WOC. True it has a low start cost but long term you're going to have an expensive wall hanger or an ongoing project. So far, I haven't found anything as reliable as a KJW GBBR which is why I own 3 of them. Here's almost everything I know about it: miairsoft.proboards.com/thread/46315/ultimate-source-links-info-kjwEvery now and then you can find a used one for a great price that already includes all the cradle upgrades that let you adjust the fps. Just last month I saw a version 1 for sale for 350 & it had 3 mags plus the cradle parts. I was gonna link it but it sold pretty quickly. The biggest drawback as Gunny mentioned is when it gets cold, you can't use the gun outside. At least there are a few indoor places sprinkled around the state and the gun will do just fine in that environment.
|
|
|
Post by Gimpalong on Dec 31, 2013 12:02:55 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of the P* platform as you know, so I won't bother repeating what Gunny has already mentioned. Take a look at the PTW Clones thread over on Arnie's. My reading of the thread is that the whole PTW/CTW/DTW band-wagon is a bit of a mixed bag. PTWs are, in my opinion, too expensive for what you get and the issues that need to be corrected out of the box. CTWs and DTWs bring the initial cost down to a more reasonable level, but appear to leave a lot to be desired as far as quality control. Some people seem to have great experiences with the clones (as well as the original PTWs), while others have nothing but problems. I'd wager that the root causes of this phenomenon boils down to happy people not reporting issues, unhappy people screaming on every forum they can find, armchairsofters who never actually field their PTW/CTW/DTWs enough to encounter failures and dumb people (like me... ) who can break any mechanical device by looking at it too closely. As far as GBBRs go, I'd agree with Arc that the KJW is probably the way to go for reliability. That said, if you can find one of the original WOCs with steel parts (i.e. not the WOC-X OR the challenge kit) then you'll probably be good to go provided you're willing to learn to service the thing. One relatively low budget alternative that I hesitate to mention is the WE line. I "hesitate" because, while WE has a poor reputation, their GBBRs are pretty easy to get parts for and come in a wide variety of flavors. So you could buy a WE M4A1 (or whatever) and upgrade it with all the fancy, high-end, durability parts for less than funding something like a KJW with magazines or decent WOC. Of course, this basically fits Arc's definition of "on-going project/wallhanger." That said, any GBBR/GIM you buy is going to de-gassing and crapping out all over your face in the winter time. KJW M4 review thread on Arnie'sG&P GBBR Family review thread on Arnie's"Best GBBR to start with?""Best performing GBBR "Just to turn this around on you a bit, what exactly are you looking for a in rifle? Are you looking for absolute realism? Performance? Reliability? Or some other quality?
|
|
|
Post by Coldwave on Dec 31, 2013 13:11:42 GMT -5
I would like all 3 aspects like any other airsofter/milsimer, but if I were to rate them on importance; 1.) Reliability I don't want to fix my gun after every event 2.) Performance 3.) Cool guy swag realism. After reading around a bit I think I'm realizimg GBBR's are kind of useless in Michigan, and the PTW series is more work than I'm willing to through into a gun. Plus the ease of buying one lower and multiple uppers really appeals to me. I'll probably hit you up on FB and pick your P* brain gimp. Thanks for your knowledge guys. (:
|
|
|
Post by Gunny87 on Dec 31, 2013 14:19:20 GMT -5
I would like all 3 aspects like any other airsofter/milsimer, but if I were to rate them on importance; 1.) Reliability I don't want to fix my gun after every event 2.) Performance 3.) Cool guy swag realism. After reading around a bit I think I'm realizimg GBBR's are kind of useless in Michigan, and the PTW series is more work than I'm willing to through into a gun. Plus the ease of buying one lower and multiple uppers really appeals to me. I'll probably hit you up on FB and pick your P* brain gimp. Thanks for your knowledge guys. (: Yeah the P* is unarguably the most reliable platform available on the market today. And it also provides the best performance as well. However it lacks in terms of realism if you're using an air rig and external tank. But it's worth the trade off IMO and like I said, now there's a kit available where you can fit a small tank in a specially made stock that eliminates the need for an air rig and external tank. It too doesn't look very realistic since the tank is exposed, but it's available if you don't want to use an air rig.
|
|
|
Post by Gimpalong on Dec 31, 2013 15:15:10 GMT -5
It should also be mentioned that the Daytona Gun kits offer reliability, performance and "cool guy swag realism" as far as recoil in a similar package to the P*. Zander has one and can probably provide some insight. The Daytona Gun platform isn't as easily tuneable as a P* since it lacks an electronic control unit, but it also doesn't require a battery or have any wires or boards. The P* is probably going to provide more accuracy since it's a totally stable non-recoiling launch platform, but the Daytona Gun HAS AWESOME-SAUCE 1337 RECOIL! Seriously, they are super fun to shoot! In terms of reliability, I'd give the edge to the Daytona Gun platform since it's basically purely pneumatic with a bunch of steel parts moving around. It's more or less an Escort (remember that ol' SniperX character?) system which itself is basically a modified bullet-valve classic airsoft gun. You can still find classic guns today that were made in the 1980s or early 1990s, so they are apparently quite hard-wearing. Anyway, just thought I'd toss that into the mix to further confuse you.
|
|
|
Post by Coldwave on Dec 31, 2013 19:41:15 GMT -5
If I'm understanding their website correctly im you need to use a GBBR body? This might be a viable option with the added recoil coolness. So it works in a similar manner to a p* in the sense that it runs off of HPA, but the action of a gbbr..?
|
|
|
Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Jan 1, 2014 19:12:14 GMT -5
I'd stray away from the Daytona Guns, they're more maintenance and issues if something goes wrong. They use GBBR's as donors (like the G&P WOC, not WOC-X though) For the most part there aren't a ton of parts if something goes wrong. Tony Rizzo does custom installs for people in the U.S. (there are more, but he's the most famous/used). It's the same thing as a PolarStar in a sense but with better kick than most GBBR's and less tune-ability for the average airsofter. The awesome thing about a PolarStar is that you can take it out of your gun like a V2 gearbox and swap your nozzle if you're running too hot or not high enough. Daytona's the mechanics are obviously built into the gun, so if you fracture your body or something, you'll need to modify a new one. So unlike a PolarStar if you get bored of a regular M4 style, you can't drop it into a 416 for example. PolarStars can swap guns so long as they use the same version gearbox and length nozzle. For reliability I'd go Polarstar if you're looking into something gas/air operated. Daytona's and GBBR's aren't as reliable as Polarstars in my honest opinion. I've used/owned all 3 and the PolarStar is the only one that will probably stay in my arsenal for a while. You can get a P* for pretty cheap now-a-days. $800's a pretty decent deal
|
|
|
Post by Coldwave on Jan 1, 2014 20:16:59 GMT -5
Well that website is now bookmarked. Thanks for the link, how many shots can you usually get off with a 90/4500 psi tank?
|
|
|
Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Jan 1, 2014 20:33:01 GMT -5
Shot count is determined by tank volume, tank pressure and operating pressure. A very conservative calculation is (Tank Capacity) x (Tank Pressure/100) = Shots. So an 88ci / 4500psi tank would be 88 x 45 = approximately 3960 shots at 110psi.
|
|
|
Post by Zander on Jan 17, 2014 11:11:20 GMT -5
Sorry Coldwave, I've not been on over the holidays. I'd say either DG or P*. My progression went CTW (one that actually worked) to P* to DG. P* was the best platform for consistency, and an R-Hop with a 409mm barrel is borderline cheating. It literally shoots lasers, I got bored with sitting back and tagging anyone I wanted to. I'm not extremely technical, so messing with the different settings was off-putting to me. I LOVE MY DG. End of story. I only have one other replica, and that's solely for backup. I definitely think the DG is more reliable than the P*, I just encountered some minor issues with my DG that were easy fixes. The airhose connection into the back is weak, easy to replace (or just have Tony replace during the install) and you need to make sure you lube it a LOT. Its all stainless internals, think pneumatic tools, not much can go wrong. FPS can be tricky, it depends mostly on barrel length and spring length. The springs to create the recoil are RS buffer springs, which the shorter they are, the less PSI it takes to cycle the bolt. I've never tried to use my DG indoors for >350 FPS, although I would imagine I would need to cut down a spare spring a good bit since I run a 14.5" barrel (when I switched from a 10.5" setup my FPS went up about 30). At the end of the day. they will always run in semi auto at any PSI, so that pretty much solves any CQB issues. The best part about the DG's are the RECOIL and SOUND, it's just plain fun. I run a 68/4500 tank, at NL3 I only filled up once, and had over 2000 left at the end of Sunday. Anyone at the final push Sunday probably saw my firing aimlessly in the middle of the field, I was just dry firing, but the other team didn't know. It definitely can intimidate those on the other end who don't know what it is (maybe it was the pink shirts...). They are as accurate as I could ask for, introducing recoil will never help consistency, but they are nowhere near P*.
|
|
|
Post by Zorak on Jan 17, 2014 17:43:12 GMT -5
Zander and I have totally different impressions of DG. I wish I'd never bought my DG AK-74SU; it's a piece of shit stock due to the lousy inner barrel, the trigger is brutally hard on semi, and it's a pain to work on because while it only has a few pieces, they have to go together exactly right or it doesn't feed, and there's nothing to help you identify the sweet spot. I'd try to sell it but I doubt I could get a good deal for it in its current pile-of-parts condition. I do agree that the noise and recoil are fun, though.
|
|
|
Post by Zander on Jan 17, 2014 18:33:26 GMT -5
Is yours an early gen AK? I know those had a good bit of issues.
The M4s are pretty new and use AEG barrels. The internals are pretty different.
|
|