Vic (Rattlehead)
New Member
I will strike when the iron is hot, and bend it to my will.
Posts: 332
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Post by Vic (Rattlehead) on Jul 16, 2013 0:36:14 GMT -5
Let me start with a brief introduction. I got into(or tried to get into) mag fed paintball last summer. Was sure I wanted it, bought all my gear, got to play ONE magfed game, REALLY ENJOYED IT, and, well, that's it. Haven't seen any other mag fed games in the vicinity since. I hate speed ball, I hate hoppers and tanks.
So, a few weeks ago, I ACCIDENTALLY wound up on an airsoft video on YouTube, particularly one by Jet Desert Fox. I started watching dozens of videos and it really took off from there. I bought a side arm(Elite Force 1911 TAC), and figured "I can use all my paintball gear, tac vest, camo, etc and just use it in airsoft!".
Now It took me a while to choose which gun I would pick as my primary(there's so many different makes, models, pros and cons, it's so overwhelming!). Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I really liked the Elite Force M4 CQB. Despite having, out of the box, low-end FPS for field play(it's a CQB gun, I know), I really like the look of it. It has a quick-change spring feature, which means I could have a better spring for field play, and it apparently already has metal internals, polycarb piston(I'm repeating this from somewhere else, no clue what it means) so I can just switch in a better spring(apparently).
I thought I was dead-set on this gun, but since a few days ago AirsoftGI has had the A&K Magpul Masada on sale for around 30% off, which brings it from $270 down to $195, right in my budget. I didn't really care for the Masada functionally nor aesthetically, and never even considered it because it was out of my price range, but now that it's in my budget, the more I look at it, the more I love it. Now, the downside, compared to the EF M4 CQB, is that the Masada does NOT come with a battery, a charger, and it includes only 1 mag, vs the EF's 2 high caps, stubby grip, charger and battery. I'm also not much a fan of the battery in the handguard thing, it seems crane stocks are the way to go, but that's not so much of a concern.
There's also the concern that IF I wanted to play indoors CQB(are there even any such fields in the south east michigan area?), the Masada's FPS would be too high, or 'hot', as I hear some people call it, but then again the EF M4's would be too low for field play. So many choices, dammit!
So I guess my question is, if I'm not necessarily in a rush to play, and I disregard the included battery/charger, and I want the gun that works best for fields in my area, is it worth getting the Masada since it's on sale? Or should I stick with the EF M4, since I'll be able to play with it indoors and outdoors?
Like I said, I'm new and this is all too overwhelming for me at the moment. I guess if someone who had experience with one of these could give me their opinion, that'd be cool!
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Post by sneakytiger on Jul 16, 2013 2:50:42 GMT -5
I personally started both myself and my girlfriend out on G&G polymer guns. They are incredibly cheap, and out of the 10 rentals my local field has, 0 have broke down. The internals from my experience are great, and you won't have to worry about FPS for indoors. That being said, if you want to do yourself a big favor when buying an airsoft gun, ignore FPS. Act like it doesn't exist. Any gun can be made to shoot 500fps with a $10 spring (assuming the motor and battery can pull it back, and usually not for very long before they break) FPS does not equal range or effectiveness. Look at the parts quality, go to reputable reviewers, or even ask on this thread about exactly what guns your looking at and we usually can tell you with none of the usual b.s. if the gun is good or not. I personally have had nothing but bad experiences with MASADA's, I'm sure some people have had a good time with them, but I personally have owned or worked on 4 of them with less than 1000 rounds shot where they either stripped a piston or a gear lost some teeth. As for the Elite Force gun I do not have any experience with the gun, although Elite force magazines and bb's are excellent. You seem to have around a $200 price range, which is just fine. I personally would recommend you buy this gun www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=34583 And if you can find a field with a tech, spend the other $ on a new full metal piston clandestineairsoft.com/pistons-c-1_6_8/shs-nylon-piston-with-15-teeth-shs-blue-15-tooth-p-56.htmland on paying the person to do a good shim and lube job on the gearbox. You will also want to buy a new battery like this one www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=29458and a charger www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=24661. Only other thing I can think of to tell you is DO NOT use walmart bb's. They can and will explode in your gun and cause you lots of trouble. Just spend the extra few $ and get good ones from your field or an online store. Heavier bb's = greater range. I would reccomend .25 or .28g bb's with the gun i mentioned above.
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Post by Knief on Jul 16, 2013 6:00:55 GMT -5
The thing about the batteries and chargers that they package guns with is that they're terrible. You can write them out of the equation entirely because you'll want to replace them immediately. You'll also want to make the switch to mid caps as soon as you can. Hicaps tend to have more malfunctions and mid caps are just more fun, both for you and everybody you're playing against.
As for your gun, I'll throw in another vote for the G&G Combat Machine line (I wouldn't get the tan receiver, and definitely avoid the blow back versions). The polyMer King Arms M4 is also supposed to be by very nice. Both should be available at Evike and AirsoftGI.
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Post by snafu on Jul 16, 2013 6:57:10 GMT -5
I can vouch for the external quality of the polymer King Arms m4. I can't say anything for the internals because mine was already upgraded when I bought it. Side by side I can say for sure that the king arms has a bit nicer externals than the G&G combat machine. It also has ready nice looking Colt Trademarks which adds a bit more to the realism in my opinion.
Maybe Deacon or someone else with experience with the King Arms will chime in with some knowledge on the internals for you.
Either way welcome to MiA!
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Abbot
New Member
Duck season...
Posts: 746
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Post by Abbot on Jul 16, 2013 8:13:56 GMT -5
I'll throw in another vote for the G&G Combat Machine. I run one, pretty much stock, other than a new inner and outer barrel and RIS, and have had zero issues with it. Also, I would go with what Knief said and would recomend not getting the tan reciever as any upgrades will have to be tan which tends to be less realistic unless you really go for the two-tone look. Don't buy any of the RIS CMs as the outer barrels tend to be shorter than the actual RS counterpart. For instance, the CQB legnth CM RIS is actually an inch or two shorter than the real steel couterpart which has a 10.5" barrel. I wouldn't recomend getting the CQB legnth as it lacks great range, ask me how I know this... The 14.5" barrel will do you more good and will still give you the CQB worthy FPS. My list would be somethithing like this: Rifle: www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_44_218&products_id=35476 (w/ the Holy Cow Deal: www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=33011)Mags, how ever many you want/need: www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_56_492&products_id=34416 (go with the stanag if it'll fit your budget better) Battery: www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=24483Tight Bore Barrel, unless you REALLY don't want an FPS higher than 350: www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=1233 Then I would customize it for a RIS, if you really prefer it, and get various other upgrades to it. It's tempting for most guys just to buy the rifle with RIS, just because they want that cool Tactical look, but seriously, get a gun with a standard sized barrel first, ask me how I know this. If you want, just don't buy mags or a TBB and just buy a RIS system, but get what you'll NEED first. Welcome to MIA!
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Post by Shadow (314) on Jul 16, 2013 11:46:51 GMT -5
My two cents; While this advice is all sound and based on experience, I'm surprised no one has said to look on the commerce section here. I've gotten 500 dollar guns for 250 that will out perform any of those guns, stock, mentioned above. There will even be those mentioned for cheaper prices. Definitely take a look, then come back and ask for details and experiences with those rifles. Good luck!
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Vic (Rattlehead)
New Member
I will strike when the iron is hot, and bend it to my will.
Posts: 332
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Post by Vic (Rattlehead) on Jul 16, 2013 13:01:06 GMT -5
Holy crap! I didn't expect such an overwhelming response! Well, I'll reply one by one, so I apologize for the tl;dr post in advance. sneakytiger I did look up the G&G Combat Machine before, but the externals don't really appeal to me. I do like M4s for their simplistic appearance and functionality, but at the same time, since I started looking at the Masada and some bullpups(which I am a big fan of in the real steel world for their ergonomics and functionality), that's what I don't like about them; they're so simple, so common. I'll read more into it for sure though, but I'm not a big fan at the moment, so it'll take some very kind words to convince me. As far as the BBs go, I was planning on using .25g Elite Force BBs, because they seem to be a good brand, and they're the same brand as my sidearm, so that's always a plus. I already read a lot of the "don't use .12g BBs, and don't use walmart/meijer BBs because they have burs and might shatter", and that was one thing I decided I wouldn't cheap out on. Plus, seeing how cheap BBs are compared to paintballs, I REALLY don't mind spending a few extra bucks on some quality BBs. Thanks for the info! Knief Thanks for the heads up on the battery! I hadn't really even thought about it, since I thought the battery only affected the rate of fire, but that's a good heads up. IF I were to get the Elite Force, I had already considered getting a different charger(thanks to crazyNCman's YouTube video on the Elite Force M4), but hadn't thought about the battery. As for the Masada, I think if I got it I'd use it in a SDM/rifleman role, since the longer barrel ads to that, so I wasn't thinking about rate of fire too much regardless, but if I was gonna spend the money, I was gonna get a 9.6v because I hear they're pretty good anyways. As for mags, as SOON I found out you have to wind hicaps, and the fact that they rattle, I immediately decided I wanted midcaps. The only reason I would see high caps being fun is in a support gunner role, which I doubt is useful in rec games anyway. Also, regarding the G&G and the King Arms, I've already looked at both, they both seem somewhat interesting, but they don't appeal to me very much. As far as M4s go, the Elite Force really piqued my interest. I love the trademarks(Not that I care THAT much about them, but apparently its a big thing in airsoft, which I'm not entirely familiar with), but what I like is it's so compact and the RIS leaves me with many customization options. I'm not a fan of standard M4 handguards, so the RIS really does it for me. snafu Thanks so much for the welcome! I'll give the King Arms M4 a good look over, but I'm not entirely concerned about realism as far as trademarks go, so long as it's a good replica of it's real steel counterpart. And again, thanks for the welcome, I'm glad to have come here! @abbot Thanks for the welcome! Much appreciated! I'll have to tally a number on the G&G, it seems pretty popular! I've never been a fan of tan on a firearm or airsoft guns regardless. Not only do I live in a primarily green environment, but tan just doesn't appeal to me. I'm a fan of matte black, what can I say! I don't see how the outer barrels being shorter than the real steel counterparts can be such a big deal, so is it frowned upon by experienced players or what? And since you put me up to it, why, must I ask, should I get a gun with a standard size barrel first? As far as realism goes, it doesn't really bother me since I figure, even with a real steel M4, you can get the barrel and gas tube shortened by any gunsmith, so sure it wouldn't match an issued M4 I suppose, but that doesn't bother me too much. I like RIS and I wouldn't want to buy one separate so the barrel length is fine by me. I hate standard handguards, so the only reason I like the Masada is because I've seen people add Magpul MOE rails to it, so I know I can still add rails for an AFG, flashlights, lasers, whatever I want to it, so yeah, unfortunately I'm a big fan of RIS, but that's why I figure I might as well get a gun with one already, get a few mid cap mags, and then later I can get a TBB and maybe a better motor, whatever it needs(concerning the Masada, a certain reviewer claims that the motor leaves something to be desired, so he recommended it be replaced). shadow (314) Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't thought about looking there at all, I'll surely give it a look! Okay, so; G&G Combat Machine M4 - 3 votes here King Arms M4 - 2 I guess I'll look into the G&G, but I can be a little stubborn, so I'll probably look into the Masada some more too. I've got a lot of reading to do, and considering I'm renovating the house I live in at the same time, this should be interesting haha. As for the Masada, It's almost a $300 gun, so the fact that it's on sale for under $200 seems like a plus to me. I wouldn't mind upgrading it some, like a better motor, TBB, mock suppressor(with a shorter outer barrel so the suppressor is recessed into the handguard, I think it would look so bad-ass haha I freaking love suppressors, real or not haha). As far as getting any of these, I see a lot of people liking Evike.com, but ASGI's free gift feature is a big plus for me. For the time being I'll probably just get the rifle, some mag pouches, and a holster from there, and since I'm gonna start out using my paintball mask, I'll get a mesh mask and goggles later on. Anyhow, I am very thankful for everyone's opinion and suggestions, they're very appreciated! Everyone I've talked to has been so nice and welcoming on this forum, It's just amazing what a positive response I've gotten since I've been here! I hate to rip on the paintball community since I still intend to play paintball, but I'm a member at the pbnation.com forums and although they're somewhat friendly, most people there seem to be more concerned about flamming noobs and how stupid the techpb.com members are, and are not interested in helping their sport evolve at all. I suppose it's unfair to compare a global forum to a local one like here, but it's just the vibe I get. People over there couldn't care less that I joined, but here it's like everyone just appreciates someone joining the airsoft community, and I really think that's great! I'll definitely look into what everyone mentioned, and I hope I responded correctly to everybody!
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Jul 16, 2013 13:40:49 GMT -5
It's gonna be your gun so what you think should hold more water than what anyone else thinks but definitely consider their advice though.
My advice is if you could make your way to a rec game as an observer (before you buy anything else), it will allow you to see all the stuff that's available and out there. Most guys will have no problem answering whatever questions you might have about their gun and will likely even let you shoot it for yourself. It will really give you a lot of insight about the specific guns you are considering as well as others that you may not even know that you like.
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Deuce
New Member
Posts: 313
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Post by Deuce on Jul 16, 2013 13:41:06 GMT -5
I agree that looking at the commerce section here could be more constructive than getting a CM. 'My' personal preference is g&p for performance, reliability, and quality. Now they cost a little more but I got a g&p mk18 and she's been running like a champ for a while now. Look at something like this, it will give you superior gearbox quality, metal externals, and its already rear wired so rails are easy instillation. www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_44_219&products_id=37369I wish I started with something similar but I now use one and love it.
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Post by Knief on Jul 16, 2013 13:41:36 GMT -5
I think you might be judging these books a bit too much by their cover. You can make any M4 look completely different from where it started for pretty cheap. So you want a rail system? My guess is that you could pick up a replica KAC 7" RIS on the commerce section here for about $15 and slap it onto the King Arms. Changing out your externals is a pretty simple process. We're trying to point you in the direction of reliable guns. That A&K Masada is known to be pretty problematic, for instance. So while you may like the looks of it now, that's not going to matter when your day is ruined because it stripped a gear or burned out its motor. The affordable lines made by G&G and King Arms have proven themselves to be reliable, which is why we're pushing them so hard. You can do whatever you want to how they look. If you want to make it look like this, you can do that. If you'd rather make it look like this, you can do that too. But when it's your first gun and you don't have a back up, you need something that's going to work.
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Post by slippy on Jul 16, 2013 15:04:24 GMT -5
A buddy of mine bought a Masada, big mistake. First op he fell and the latch for the folding stock said goodbye, and then the second op up until now it has a major motor height problem so it chews through bevel gears like crazy. Maybe he got a lemon, I don't know, but ymmv. Good luck with picking your first blaster and welcome!
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Post by Phantom Reaper on Jul 16, 2013 15:07:46 GMT -5
A buddy of mine bought a Masada, big mistake. First op he fell and the latch for the folding stock said goodbye, and then the second op up until now it has a major motor height problem so it chews through bevel gears like crazy. Maybe he got a lemon, I don't know, but ymmv. Good luck with picking your first blaster and welcome! Any idea what Brand Masada? I've heard good things mostly.
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Post by Ogre on Jul 16, 2013 15:19:58 GMT -5
I'm gonna go Against the grain here and say get a G36C or an AK47. Everyone has M4's Dboys Ak's and CYMA's are good starting points. Again what everyone has been saying, throw away the charger and battery as soon as you get them though and get something decent. Also, if you want a <350fps AK, G&G makes some, although I can't speak about their quality.
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Post by Phantom Reaper on Jul 16, 2013 15:24:22 GMT -5
I'm gonna go Against the grain here and say get a G36C or an AK47. Everyone has M4's Dboys Ak's and CYMA's are good starting points. Again what everyone has been saying, throw away the charger and battery as soon as you get them though and get something decent. Also, if you want a <350fps AK, G&G makes some, although I can't speak about their quality. To add onto this if you decide to go the G36 route go with the Ares/Umarex H&K G36CV, all the the V series Ares G36's have quick change spring systems so you can go from field to CQB FPS.
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Post by Jazzman on Jul 16, 2013 15:24:23 GMT -5
My recommendation is also the G&G Combat Machine. They are very solid guns, and come at a very attractive price. Only problem I have with them is that they have a very slow motor, so pick up a G&P M120 motor with it and you will have a damn good gun.
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