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Post by Dingoâ„¢ on Oct 29, 2012 11:31:48 GMT -5
I'm still pretty sure that there wasn't actually any comms until sunday. At least most of you in third platoon had functioning squads. Aside for the communication breakdown, platoon/squad organization was all jacked up. For NL4, in addition to much better communication, we a better plan for the platoons...
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Post by Gunny87 on Oct 29, 2012 15:16:24 GMT -5
Even though I wasn't the dedicated 3rd PL Lt (that was Pryka), I had my comms either on the command channel or on 3rd PL main channel. No matter how you look at it, comms were mostly fucked the whole weekend. I had trouble communicating just with Command, not because of limitations with my comms, but just trying to get through to them. And it was either due to some dumb fuck using VOX, or just too many people trying to communicate with command at the same time, or idiots communicating on the command channel that weren't supposed to in the first place.
Depending on how many squads and platoons we end up getting for next year we will definitely need to revise our comm strategy. They did work a lot better for the first half on Sunday when we were all communicating on the same channel. I was able to communicate and coordinate with other squads on Sunday at the start of the game when we pushed on tan coming from the Detroit River.
The biggest limitation I have, is that I do not have an easy way of switching back and forth between channels, due to the location of my Toy Soldier PRC-148 which I had on the back of my hydration carrier. I tried to relocate it to my side but had issues with extending and movement. I also tried to run with two comms, one on command and the other on the plt channel, but I wasn't able to manage both at the same time. I could barely hear one over the other.
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Post by Gimpalong on Oct 29, 2012 15:29:26 GMT -5
What we really need to do is to limit the total number of people with radios.
We need to establish a structure so that the platoon leadership can communicate with each other, and so that each platoon can communicate with command and vice versa.
Intra-platoon comms shouldn't be necessary, or should be at the discretion of the platoon leadership.
The fewer people on the communications nets and the fewer overall channels being used to direct each element the better.
I'm sure someone smarter than me can come up with an elegant flow chart or something that would simplify communications between each different group.
Something like below, but better.
Headquarters Primary Command Radio Operator (command net, channel 1) - Talks to platoon leadership via Command Radio Operator Primary Platoon Radio Operator (Platoon net, channel 2) - monitors platoon activity
Platoon 1 Command Radio Operator (command net, channel 1 ) - talks to command Platoon Radio Operator (Platoon net, channel 2) - talks to platoon 2, 3, 4
Platoon 2 Command Radio Operator (command net, channel 1) - talks to command Platoon Radio Operator (Platoon net, channel 2) - talks to platoon 1, 3, 4
Platoon 3 Command Radio Operator (command net, channel 1) - talks to command Platoon Radio Operator (Platoon net, channel 2) - talks to platoon 1, 2, 4
Platoon 4 Command Radio Operator (command net, channel 1) - talks to command Platoon Radio Operator (Platoon net, channel 2) - talks to platoon 1, 2, 3
2 radio operators per platoon or command group. 10 people with radios. 5 individuals per channel.
Overall commander doesn't use his own radio. Platoon commanders don't use their own radios. They rely on their radio operators who don't leave their sides.
A commander trying to communicate with HQ or with other platoons himself can't properly direct his own element. Turn these tasks over to a dedicated radio operator.
Identify who the radio operators will be prior to the game. Insure that they have solid (i.e. not Motorola talkabouts) communications gear. Get them together the day before the game and set up comms as a group (disable VOX, etc, practice).
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Post by Psychosis on Oct 29, 2012 16:12:59 GMT -5
Irene ran a lot smoother when everyone had radios and were all on the same page. We had inter-squad commo and inter-platoon commo, which worked out decently well except for the limited range of FRS. I don't know if people adhered to the commo matrix better at Irene than at Northern Light, just speculation on my part.
Agreed that the PL needs to be planning and shifting subordinates around the battlefield as needed, not bouncing around the field in a vehicle for his own edification.
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Impulse
New Member
Ayatollah Rock n' Rolla
And on the third day, God created the Remington bolt-action rifle.
Posts: 534
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Post by Impulse on Oct 29, 2012 19:06:00 GMT -5
Overcoming the limited range of FRS systems can be overcome by retransmitting - which, if we have designated ratelos, they'd be doing.
I really like how this is progressing, turning over a new page for airsoft with proper command and control. I'm far too used to team CO's being on the front shootin' up the baddies - the other thirty-some riflemen who are listening to your commands are a more effective weapon than that carbine in your hands, Chief.
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Post by Gunny87 on Oct 29, 2012 21:01:23 GMT -5
I really like how this is progressing, turning over a new page for airsoft with proper command and control. I'm far too used to team CO's being on the front shootin' up the baddies - the other thirty-some riflemen who are listening to your commands are a more effective weapon than that carbine in your hands, Chief. True, however if you were paying $160 or $120 to play at a large scale Lions Claw MILSIM event would you want to be sitting back and not getting a chance to play at all? I know I wouldn't. Even the V.I.P C.O's are right in the middle of the shit during the game. Regardless of whether or not that's realistic. With that being said, if a C.O. or PL for that matter is getting too involved with playing and is derelecting their duties in commanding then that is also not right. There needs to be a balance of commanding and playing. But first and foremost yes, if someone is to take on the responsibility in some form of a command role, then they need to be willing to do more commanding then playing. I've C.O.'d quite a few smaller scale (100 people) MILSIM events and I've succeeded in all of them by being prepared and willing to not shoot at all but by committing myself to coordinating the players under my command. At some games I wasn't even allowed to play, but to only command and that's not for everyone. Especially if you're paying to play.
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Post by Knief on Oct 29, 2012 21:12:18 GMT -5
We should just make everybody buy an Icom and kick anybody off who buys a vox capable headset. Everything's compatible, we can set out own channels and lock out everybody else if we want, and get rid of 90% of the noise. Then get Timm to stop flapping his jaw and take care of the rest of the noise.
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Post by Psychosis on Oct 29, 2012 21:32:20 GMT -5
From looking at a past commo matrix, it looks like they allowed one particular group of special snowflakes to communicate on UHF and VHF frequencies outside of FRS/GMRS, perhaps we can do the same thing next time.
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Post by Knief on Oct 30, 2012 7:59:34 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I was expecting from the pre-game rules. But like most of the rules, they sort of went out the window. At the squad leader briefing on Friday, Keni pretty much told us that if we have any non-standard channels to use, go for it. X programmed our squad's and his squad's radios with some frequencies above the normal GMRS bands. We may have been the snow flakes, but I don't think he was going to limit it to just us if anybody else was capable.
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Post by Gunslinger on Nov 5, 2012 13:13:13 GMT -5
Every one picking up the icoms is a great idea because you would have;
1. A durable radio. 2. Some thing that will be better communication device (range wise) than the motorola's. 3. It's programmable there for can be more adaptive to the game you are playing and role and, 4. It's only for some of the simpler radios 150.00 ish and some people that can't afford one out right now have enough time to start saving. So buy one!
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Post by Knief on Nov 5, 2012 13:29:04 GMT -5
I know at least X and I have the ability to program the 4011s and I believe the 4001s as well. If anybody is worried about getting them programmed correctly, I'll gladly volunteer both of us to set up a programming station before the game to get us all on the same page.
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Post by Timm on Nov 5, 2012 14:14:50 GMT -5
Then get Timm to stop flapping his jaw and take care of the rest of the noise. Twaaaaaaat?
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Post by Tank on Nov 6, 2012 8:44:59 GMT -5
Gimpalong,
I know that your intentions are good, with the limiting if radios to command, but there are three scenarios where this fails. 1. Squads have two fire teams. Fire teams obviously are not as far separated as squads, but are often too far apart to not have coms. 2. When you have a guy or two that have to go back to respawn, you need radios to link back up. At a normal airsoft game this is not an issue, but when your AO is over 2 miles long, a lot happens during that time frame and the squad could have moved a lot. 3. When the squad leader, or whoever is allowed to have a radio goes down, then you swill need to have other people in the squad that can communicate to command.
I believe command should have a separate channel, but I also believe that they need to be prepared to put command first, and shooting second. Short of being dead, you should never have an issue contacting command. There would be far less strategy planning on the radio, between squad leaders, if command was keeping closer tabs on what is going on within their platoons.
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Post by X on Nov 6, 2012 9:14:08 GMT -5
I know at least X and I have the ability to program the 4011s and I believe the 4001s as well. If anybody is worried about getting them programmed correctly, I'll gladly volunteer both of us to set up a programming station before the game to get us all on the same page. Yeah Knief and I will go through the monumental effort of programming everyone's radio. So long as you buy us beer. Come on Knief if you're going to whore us out at least do it for booze.
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Post by Gimpalong on Nov 6, 2012 12:32:40 GMT -5
Gimpalong, I know that your intentions are good, with the limiting if radios to command, but there are three scenarios where this fails. 1. Squads have two fire teams. Fire teams obviously are not as far separated as squads, but are often too far apart to not have coms. 2. When you have a guy or two that have to go back to respawn, you need radios to link back up. At a normal airsoft game this is not an issue, but when your AO is over 2 miles long, a lot happens during that time frame and the squad could have moved a lot. 3. When the squad leader, or whoever is allowed to have a radio goes down, then you swill need to have other people in the squad that can communicate to command. Right, Tank, absolutely. My suggestions were based solely on the idea of establishing a means of each squad being able to communicate with command and also communicate between each squad. It's perfectly fine for squads to have intra-squad communication if they so choose. Having intra-squad communication, however, doesn't mean that the squad leader shouldn't also be delegating the task of communicating directly with command to a subordinate radio operator who follows him around and spends his time listening to and communicating on the command channel. If either the squad leader or radio operator is killed then you've still got other radios available that were previously tuned to the intra-squad channel that you can then tune over to the command- or the inter-squad channel to make up for the loss of a radio operator or commander. My main goal was not necessarily to push a communications structure. I did suggest one, but I admitted that other people could probably come up with something better. My main goal was to emphasize the need for only a few people to be speaking on a couple of select channels so that communication between squads and between squads and command can be as uncluttered as possible. I think what we want to avoid is: 1) Squad leader having to deal directly with communications to command rather than running his squad. 2) Squad leader switching back and forth between channels on a single radio. 3) Too much traffic or clutter on command or inter-squad channels.
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