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Post by Connors on Sept 28, 2012 22:16:21 GMT -5
I'm looking to replace the motor in my Marui P90 with something a bit more reliable. I have a Guarder high speed motor in currently, but the pinion gear has stripped itself of being attached to the motor shaft and freely slides up and down. Without the proper tools and parts to remove the pinion and replace it, I am in need of a new motor, and need some suggestions. In the time I have been out of the scene, a lot has changed and more options have presented themselves and I am not as knowledgable in this new era as I once was. I have been looking into an AMP High Torque motor, since the pinion is attached and held in via set screw, and replacement pionions are readily available should a stripped gear come about. However, I know little to nothing about the brand in terms of reliability and what kind of results to expect overall. Internally, my gearbox is stock save a shim job and a sector gear chip and I have wired a Mosfet in to accomadate a Lipo. My biggest concern is the pinion gear stripping out again with a higher speed setup. I am looking for reliability with noticeably more than speed than a stock TM motor can put out. I am normally a strict Guarder and Systema guy, but on the matter of a motor, my preferred choices are either no longer available or very difficult to source in a cost efficient manner. Input, both good and bad, what to steer away from, or what motors are better than others(based on experience), would be of great help. *Edit* If reparing my current pinion dilemma can be done by means of locktite or something of the like without a whole new motor or buying the "hard to find in-stock" tool and a new pinion, I am all ears! |
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Post by ThompsonFTW on Sept 28, 2012 22:22:03 GMT -5
Where to begin...
The AMP motor is my personal favorite torque motor. The AMP motor is the torqueist motor I have used. Also, the motor is tougher than nails. The downside is the motor is in no way fast. Now that's not to say it is slow.... however you won't see the drastic speed increase you will see with a speed motor.
Another brand of motors getting a lot of acclaim lately are lonex motors. I have only used one and that's in a stock gun. (Other than motor and shim) the motor is the torque motor. It gives me great trigger response with an ok rate of fire. I suggest a lonex balanced motor for you. They run about the same as an AMP motor and can be found fairly easily.
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Sept 28, 2012 22:55:55 GMT -5
If you have a stock P90, there should be no use for a "high-speed" setup when running a Lipo. I've seen gearboxes and hop-ups destroy themselves within a mag from high-speed setups with Lipos (gears, motor, battery, the gearbox cycled so fast it basically exploded). Also, most hopup and mags can't keep up with certain RPS setups (I can't remember the magic number, might be 30 or 35 rps is the height of high-speed setups).
Torque motor's are used mainly for higher rated springs, and Speeds are meant for lower powered springs for high RPS. No reason to buy a Torque motor for a stock gun, as it was designed like a truck, to haul big loads (not to haul quickly). I don't see the use in upgrading past a TM EG1000 for use with a Lipo and a stock spring. If you have different vision in mind down the road, I'd have more info and suggestions to help on what you want to do. If you're staying with a stock P90 with a decent rate of fire, then I'd just get a stock TM motor or something similar.
Are you using a 7.4 or 11.1 Lipo? Are you running a M90, M100, or M110 equivalent spring (guessing stock TM spring)? What are you plans, keeping it stock for a high rate of fire. Is it meant for CQB, or woodland?
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Post by Myers on Sept 28, 2012 23:06:06 GMT -5
I do not see a point in upgrading a TM P90. Mine absolutely ripped with a 9.6v. (By ripped, I mean at an actual somewhat practical ROF, I'd estimate 16-17 RPS, which is wayyyyy fast enough.) I can't even imagine how gnarly a 11.1v lipo would be.
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Post by Connors on Sept 29, 2012 1:01:24 GMT -5
I'd have to open her up to be for sure, but now that you mention the spring, I might have put a m100 in. The most recent chrono number I have recorded was at 327 from almost 2 years ago. I use a 7.4 lipo. I honestly have no idea how fast it is, rps wise. I rarely use full auto and its lightning fast on semi, comparable to a ptw. I'm more going for a high speed setup.
I am in the process of swapping my standard mosfet with a burst fet to completely eliminate fully auto capability.
Is a standard speed motor a better choice in this scenario?
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Post by ThompsonFTW on Sept 29, 2012 5:43:46 GMT -5
If you rarely use full auto you will want a torque motor. Speed motors take a while to spin up to full speed while torque motors are at top speed much quicker. Its the equivalent of a car being in first gear (torque) and stomping on it. It accelerates quickly. Now put the car in 4th gear (speed) an stomp on it. It will accelerate slowly but have a highs top speed. Make sense?
Why put a TM motor in? They aren't anything special and will cost just about as much as an AMP motor? Just curious why you guys say that...
Sent from my VS910 4G using proboards
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Sept 29, 2012 12:32:53 GMT -5
I have more experience with TM motors then AMP. You can usually find used or barely used TM's (I've found them for around $15-$20 depending on the seller) for cheaper then AMP's, but it depends what's available on the used market. If it's for just a standard setup then there's no reason to upgrade the motor for that build. Since he's looking for a HRPS build and is only using a 7.4v Lipo, there is some wiggle room.
My current M4 platform only runs a 9.6v and a TM EG1000 and I'm getting 18RPS, with only a shimjob and M100. That's more then sufficient. My only question is why do you want a High Speed Build, when you'll only use semi and 3-round burst? I honestly don't see the point. To each their own I guess, but in this case, most likely the AMP Torque motor may be your best option (also to note, mosfets and Lipo's usually increase trigger response as well as Deans with the least amount of connections in the gearbox to battery, aka fuses and the like).
So, even though I think for a semi/3-round burst HRPS build, it's a little excessive, but I guess I'd suggest the AMP Torque motor and switched everything to deans if you haven't already (guessing you did if you did a Mosfet addition).
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Post by ThompsonFTW on Sept 29, 2012 13:49:26 GMT -5
Generally speaking for a gun where I intend to use semi-only I want a fast RPS. Why? The faster your Rps the faster your gun can cycle. This in turn means you have a better trigger response. If your using semi-only trigger response is king from my experience. I assumed that's why he wanted a high RPS build. Of course I could be totally wrong.  |
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Post by Fugazi on Sept 29, 2012 19:47:10 GMT -5
Why put a TM motor in? They aren't anything special and will cost just about as much as an AMP motor? Just curious why you guys say that... High ROF stock, and almost completely silent compared to others. |
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Post by specks159 on Oct 2, 2012 23:07:15 GMT -5
If you have a stock P90, there should be no use for a "high-speed" setup when running a Lipo. I've seen gearboxes and hop-ups destroy themselves within a mag from high-speed setups with Lipos (gears, motor, battery, the gearbox cycled so fast it basically exploded). Also, most hopup and mags can't keep up with certain RPS setups (I can't remember the magic number, might be 30 or 35 rps is the height of high-speed setups). Torque motor's are used mainly for higher rated springs, and Speeds are meant for lower powered springs for high RPS. No reason to buy a Torque motor for a stock gun, as it was designed like a truck, to haul big loads (not to haul quickly). I don't see the use in upgrading past a TM EG1000 for use with a Lipo and a stock spring. If you have different vision in mind down the road, I'd have more info and suggestions to help on what you want to do. If you're staying with a stock P90 with a decent rate of fire, then I'd just get a stock TM motor or something similar. Are you using a 7.4 or 11.1 Lipo? Are you running a M90, M100, or M110 equivalent spring (guessing stock TM spring)? What are you plans, keeping it stock for a high rate of fire. Is it meant for CQB, or woodland? People have been running guns reliably at well over 50rps without issue, and the mags have kept up fine as well. A high speed setup will NOT destroy your gearbox as long as it is tuned well. Torque motors are not in fact used for high rated springs only. I have a JG Blue high torque motor running ~29rps. You are correct in stating that speed motors are only meant for low powered springs, as they do not have the necessary torque to pull higher rate springs. The reason to use a torque motor with a low powered spring is efficiency and trigger response. Trigger response is NOT solely dictated by the max rof of the gun, but by how fast the motor spins up. A high torque motor reaches peak rof much faster than a high speed motor. If you have two 30 rps setups, one with a HT motor and one with a HS motor, the HT setup will have a faster trigger response. HT motors are also more efficient. They require less current to pull the string as they have excess torque, meaning your batteries last longer. How do you get high speed with a HT motor? Simply use high speed gears. You will get great trigger response while still maintaining an effective rof. That 35rps cap mentioned earlier is for low rated springs. Low rated springs are not powerful enough to return the piston to rest position before the gears start the next cycle, leading to pre engagement. The solution to this is simply to increase the spring rating and short stroke the gears. With a M150 you can run 45-50rps perfectly fine. This is why a torque motor becomes necessary for higher rps setups, as preventing pre engagement requires springs stronger than HS motors can pull. Now once you get above 40rps it is really much more efficient to switch to a DSG, but that is a whole separate conversation. Now Conners to address your issue...First off if you are running a lipo you should really think of correcting the AOE of your piston. You probably cannot fix your current pinion gear with some loctite. It may hold for a bit, but I personally wouldn't trust it for too long. With as cheap as good motors are, it is just as easy to replace it. With your stock setup, you can use just about any motor on the market and it will work perfectly fine. For efficiency and power reasons I would choose something with neo magnets. Any ACM neo magnet motor will work, just choose one depending on what setup you're going for. The steps I mentioned above are not the only way to get to a HS setup. At rof below 30, either a HS motor or HS gears will suffice. I encourage you to think about doing your setup in the most efficient manner possible, but if you're on a budget its not absolutely necessary. I will also recommend Lonex motors as they have a good reputation for both reliability and performance, but any motor should work for your setup. |
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Post by Phantom G3 on Oct 3, 2012 11:50:03 GMT -5
I just want to put some input in as my own experience, but I run a Hummer 1300 motor in my main primary and I have had the same one for 2 years now and it has been a lifesaver. It is rugged and it is the cost effective equivelant to a Systema Magnum High-Torque Motor. I have owned both and I love both the same. I just know my Hummer is cheaper and has lasted a long time for me.
That is the High-Torque section of motors. They don't necessarily have a fast ROF in some cases because they are restricted by this since they are not High-Speed.
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Post by milost on Oct 13, 2012 9:32:08 GMT -5
I would get a JG Blue and pair it with 13:1 gears if you want to use Nimh batteries. That way you won't notice the voltage sag too much and still get high rof. If you use lipos on the other hand, I would get a nice Lonex A1 (red, balanced). I have used one myself and it is waaay better then my SHS HT. the new Titan version are supposed to be even better, and they cost $45 + $6 shipping from HivemindAirsoft.com . ClandestineAirsoft carries them too but is out of stock at the moment.
Another option is JG M-93 red on ebay. They go for $40 shipped. Look it up
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