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Post by Dynamo on Jul 29, 2011 14:14:04 GMT -5
I did do a search for topics similar, but didn't find what I was looking for...close, but no cigar. If I made a mistake, MODS feel free to kick my ass and send me in the right direction. Anywho, I'm looking to put forth the time and money to get an accurate modern Navy Seal impression together. The purpose of this post is to get my information straight so I can accurately represent the Navy Seals and have my impression of them hold up to tight scrutiny. I've done lot's of searches on Camo, weapons, gear, etc. But I have yet to find a definitive list of requirements. I'll start by sharing what I have learned. Hopefully, you guys can confirm this info, or at least steer me in the right direction if it's incorrect. Weapons:From what I've gathered from doing my own research on the subject, they primarily use M4's or MK18's with SOPMOD attachments. I've heard conflicting statements saying that they mainly use Block I, but I've also heard that they use Block II as well. Any clarification here would be helpful. My only question with this is with the rail system. I know a Daniel Defense rail is a part of the Block II SOPMOD kit. Is it alright to use one, or should I go with the standard KAC rail instead? As far as a pistol goes, I know it's either Mk23 or a Sig 228. Would a standard 226 be acceptable? I know the 228 is just a compact version of the 226. Next comes the gear:CIRAS or LBT 6094 style plate carrier - Khaki (I know there is a chest rig setup used with the soft armor underneath, but I'm going to just go with the PC instead.) *MICH 2000, or 2001* *IBH, or Protec helmet* Safariland leg holster *Rare cases of a belt mounted SERPA holster* AOR1 or AOR2 depending on environment *Occasional use of Multicam* Gear is where I need the most direction with. I've listed what I've read so far, but there are several gaps that I need to fill to get a good grasp of it all. I know I missed the footwear and eye wear. *SERPA holster: is this correct? It would make my day if it was, I already have one. ;D *Multicam: I know that AOR1 and 2 are Crye Precision products, but both are currently unavailable to the public. Is Multicam a decent alternative to say Woodland or DCU's? Is Multicam even something that the SEAL's wear? Haha *Helmet: Which model is more common? MICH series or IBH? In the pictures I've seen, they don't use normal M4 pouches (the kind with the flap on top). It appears to be some sort of built in open-top. What is it and where can I find one? ;D Picture below: Given that AOR1/2 is off limits to civilians, what is the most appropriate alternative for modern camouflage? Also, I know that they use RAID modified BDU's - which my understanding of it is just removing the breast pockets, moving them to the shoulders, and adding velcro for patches, etc. I understand that this is going to be a long process, but I'm really interested in getting my facts straight so I can dive into this. I would appreciate any answers or links you could provide to help me find the information I need. Thanks in advance everyone, Dynamo
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Post by cqbr on Jul 29, 2011 14:37:17 GMT -5
Your all over the place with the different camos, gun setups, and helmets. All are from different time periods/teams.
You need to pick whatever time period you want your impression to be based upon and go from there. Troll Arnies or 561 for SEAL photos so you can decided what you want to do.
Also, if you don't wanna pony up the dough for real AOR1 stuff, the best advice is to steer clear as the majority of the replica stuff is super shitty in quality and will be spotted a mile away.
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Post by Dynamo on Jul 29, 2011 14:52:31 GMT -5
Your all over the place with the different camos, gun setups, and helmets. All are from different time periods/teams. You need to pick whatever time period you want your impression to be based upon and go from there. Troll Arnies or 561 for SEAL photos so you can decided what you want to do. Also, if you don't wanna pony up the dough for real AOR1 stuff, the best advice is to steer clear as the majority of the replica stuff is super shitty in quality and will be spotted a mile away. I'm looking to go for the most Modern setup. Also, it was my understanding that AOR isn't available to civilians. As far as looking at photo's go...I've done that to no end. But, it's not going to help me out if I don't know what that stuff is. Overall, I just need some direction as to what is current and then what is what gear wise. I'm guessing that the photo I posted is current. If that's the case, the helmet would be a MICH 2001, and the weapon would be Block I with the addition of an EOtech 552 or 551 (based on the other pics in the thread I found).
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Post by cqbr on Jul 29, 2011 16:10:07 GMT -5
Most of the common modern stuff is gonna be full AOR1 from head to toe then. You won't personally be able to purchase AOR items directly, so your best bet is going to be eBay or getting to know a SEAL/Collector. If your looking to replicate just your picture up there your gonna need: Eagle DPC LBT 2645A Eagle wrist coach Replica 5-Pin MBITR Silynx comms setup (Forgot if it's the C4 or C5, I'm sure Knife knows) Whatever EI/LBT AOR1/Khaki pouches you deem necessary Crye Precision or Repro Combat Set Riggers belt and retension lanyard Also, there's a shit ton more pics from that photo set on 561, fyi. I think I or kong put them up. Pic of myself and a teammate.
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ctres
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Post by ctres on Jul 29, 2011 16:20:32 GMT -5
CQBR does have some good reccomendations. We can't tell you everything in one thread like this. Also check gearsoc where you got that pic from. Look through the whole thread in the link that I posted in the SEAL saw gunner thread. For the basics of an extremely current (within the last year) I'll spell it out the basics. Helmet: mich 2001 w/ wilcox l2g05 mount system. This is the most common, but other wilcox mounts are used some (check the same series of pics as the one you posted) Ops Core helmets are rumored to be in testing by devgru, but there isn't a whole lot of evidence. Mich 2000 may still be acceptable, but 2001 is way more common now. Check out reference pics for patches, velcro placement, attachments, etc. Uniform: crye aor1. Replicas are available on ebay, royaltigergear.com and dragonredairsoft.com. They are not spot on, but decently close. Nearly all airsoft reenactors use them as a complete crye set on ebay would likely be at least $2K. Multicam is acceptable if you use it based directly on a reference pic. Boots: hikers. Merrel sawtooth or moabs, Asolo fsn 95's, maybe some salomons too. In my opinion you don't have to be too specific as they are often personal choice for real operators. Just get them dirty and no one will be able to tell what they are, just like in all the real pics. Safariland 6004 sig 226 holster is the most common. For a modern loadout I think black or FDE would be acceptable, but black would almost always be painted/dusted w/ krylon khaki. Recent pics show 6004s w/ a one strap mod as seen here. www.itstactical.com/gear/secure-your-safariland-6004-for-mid-ride/Gloves: mechanix are very common among SEALs and other special forces (left guy in your pic above), and SEALs also use the carbon fiber oakley ones sometimes. Gear/Plate Carrier: The LBT 6094 in aor1 is very common right now. Khaki may be acceptable, but the shift to aor1 is in progress for any team guys without it already. The built in pouch you see is a lbt 2645a 3 mag kangaroo pouch that fits in the front built in pocket of the 6094 and is secured by velcro. Other m4 mags are carried usually in standard eagle or lbt style aor1 m4 mag pouches attached via molle. Along with these are other styles of pouches for radio, IFAKs, and general purposes. You can see the variety on ebay. Just search aor1. The cummerbund of the 6094 also has two pockets that can hold an mbitr radio as seen in your pic. The carriers in the gearsoc pic above are actually the DPC made by eagle, which is nearly identical to the lbt 6094 and was made to relieve some manufacturing stress from lbt. Another common rig is the lbt 1961 varients which come in a few different styles some with split fronts with zippers, etc. This is a chest rig worn over a slick plate carrier (no molle on it). Usually it is a lbt 6094 slick in aor1, but the PACA soft armor carrier is also used sometimes. cqbr is wearing the 6094 slick and 1961 in aor1 in the above pic. Any rig worn is usually loaded up with all sorts of extra gear that is very useful for real operators such as IR chemlights, caribiners, S&S v lites (lately) vip strobes, callsign patches, etc. Most of this stuff isn't really too useful in most airsoft games, but all reallistic loadouts have this stuff, simply to complete the look. Blasters: SEALs now use the sopmod block II accesory kit exclusively and the block one kit is no longer used. However, fairly recent pics still show the KAC used with the block II peq 15, m3x, etc. Check out the pics of the DEA/DEVGRU drug bust for picture evidence. The daniel defense mk18 risII rail in fde is the replacement for the KAC rail, so on most m4s now, I think that is what you would find. The hk416 has also been documented in a bunch of DEVGRU photos over the last year, tricked out with the typical peq 15, eotech (except the trend appears to be the 551 or 552 instead of the fde 553 I think i'm retarded. doy! why) and m3x or surefire scout light and lmt sopmod stock. At this point it is unclear whether it is a replacement for the m4 block II, but right now both are used, although I believe the 416 is primarily used by DEVGRU. A support gunner would use a mk46 saw varient or the 7.62 mk48 as seen in the above pic. Since there is no mk48 airsoft gun, you would be stuck with the mk46. m60 and m249 pouches have been made in aor1, but I believe they are quite rare and often khaki saw/m60 pouches are seen on aor1 6094s. How was that for a quick rundown? And that's not even all. You might want to check out ferro concepts for good replica aor1 gear. His stuff is made with the sames cordura as lbt, so color is right on, and his stuff is supposed on par with eagle and lbt in terms of quality and durability. I will probably be getting a Ferro 6094 in aor1 soon, so then I will be able to see for my self. ;D Anyways, I hope this all helped, I can give more help if you have any questions.
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Post by Knife on Jul 29, 2011 19:37:18 GMT -5
Ctres does a pretty good job of explaining what's up. Its hard to come up with a 'definitive' list for what SEALs use because its much more varied than most other SOF groups. For example, old OD MBSS's still pop up on maritime missions when they haven't been made/issued in probably 7+ years. Old LBT rigs that are no longer available also pop up, whether it be a specific model or specific details like black buckles/slight design changes. No to using an IBH, they were rare to begin with (790 or so made in total) and even more so today. TC2001 would be your best bet as mentioned above, and TC2000s are still seen in limited use. the Ops Core Base Jump has started popping up as well. The photo you posted they have TC2001s. Most likely running Wilcox L2 G05s (If you want a real one, TNVC has the best price that I found when I bought my old one. I'll be picking up a new one from them soon enough and they're generally quite nce to work with), occasionally a G12 or an older Norotos 3 hole. The official pistol is a P226, not the 228 or MK23. Glocks have started to pop up, but that may be a DEVGRU test thing. I would really really discourage the use of a Serpa. The Safariland was infinitely more common and is a better holster. They can be found for sub 100 for P226s. If you want something close to AOR1, the Blackhawk HPFU has been seen/used in limited amounts in their DM3 pattern. Using that with khaki MLCS (New gen or old gen seems to be used still, more of the new gen stuff however) stuff would be fine. Khaki seems to be seen mostly stateside where most photos of SEALs deployed have them in mostly AOR1 or AOR2 with some multicam and the occasional khaki pouch/set up. The guys in your photos have some new gen MLCS M60 pouches, so it is still in use with AOR1. The comms system is the Silynx C4 Ops set up which are very very hard to get. I'm running the previous generation, the Silynx Quite Ops in the photo CQBR posted, I'm on the right. Ignore my helmet as its completely incorrect for a SEAL loadout outside of the fact that it's a TC2000. I'm also running old gen MLCS with a new gen MLCS MBITR pouch from an east coast guy. And as far as the Eotech 551/552 with 416, I've heard that the arms mount on the 553 does not properly mate with the 416 upper, thus the older mounting system on the 551/552 is required. AOR1 stuff isn't all that hard to get if you're willing to pay. It can occasionally be found quite cheap if you're good at finding things. I've been lucky a few times in that regard, but have always sold it as its worth so much right now to collectors. Prices have been coming down quite a bit however. You can probably get a field set from crye for sub 600 on ebay. The absolute best advice I can give you, is find photos and lots of them. You will be able to see 100% what is being used with no guessing. You'll only see a fraction of what's out there, but it is still the best source. Loadouts from the US will differ quite a bit from deployed loadouts, so keep that in mind. Some back up to what I've said, old gen M60 with black buckle on the back left guy: img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/sean56691/55445444.pngMany 416s img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/sean56691/img0145dv.jpgGlock, old Norotos 3 hole img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/sean56691/seal5cgsw.jpg
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ctres
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Post by ctres on Jul 29, 2011 19:57:54 GMT -5
By no means was mine a definitive list. Thanks for pointing that out knife, I didn't mean to come across like that. I simply gave a rundown of common issued items that have been seen in recent SEAL pics. As for mainly khaki gear over aor1 uniform, it would be fine for a bit older seal impression, but for something really recent, full/mainly aor1 is what is seen, generally with a few mjk/etc. pouches here and there. Same with hpfu. Actually mjk gear over hpfu would probably be a really accurate loadout, considering that it would likely have been issued when mjk gear was still very common.
As for comms, comtac IIs seem to be the most common headset throughout older and even recent reference photos, with newer ones such as the silynx popping up more and more recently. Ther are still recent pics with SEALs in full aor1 rocking comtacs and a u94 ptt, so a really fancy ptt/headset like the c4 ops isn't 100% necessary.
If you really want, you could probably use your serpa and still be pretty accurate, since SEALs tend to be allowed to choose that kind of thing out of preference. As long as the serpa is for a 225 you should be fine. I believe there have been one or two pics of SEALs with glocks, but I can't remember where, and by no means is it the norm.
@knife: Cool to know about the 416 and the 553 issues, I hadn't heard about that before, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation.
Although crye field pants and shirts are now popping up on ebay for much cheaper than the crye pants, I still think the replicas are the way to go since they are much cheaper. Even for only 500 or 600 dollars I wouldn't want to buy a field set that hasn't really even been seen in reference pictures. However, if you know a good tailor, you could maybe get a pair modded into some combat pants and shirt. That would be pretty cool, and still probably cheaper than the real combat pants and shirt.
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Post by Knife on Jul 29, 2011 20:05:20 GMT -5
I wasn't meaning to say yours was definitive or otherwise, I was just pointing it out as that's exactly why I haven't done a guide yet.
Field pants/shirt are in quite a few photos, so there's definitely evidence of them being used. Replicas will of course still be cheaper.
Sordins and PRC 152s have been used recently. Sordins might be because it was related to Maritime stuff and the TEA set up that goes along with that.
Also to add, if you want a protec helmet, get one of the Wilcox ratchet mounts.
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Post by Dynamo on Jul 29, 2011 21:50:28 GMT -5
Thanks a lot guys! This helps immensely. I'm really just trying to keep myself from wearing the "wrong" thing. So far, I'm going to be going with the following:
LBT 6094 in Khaki (AOR1 will be a little too pricey and hard to find) Sig 226 with Belt Mounted SERPA holster MICH 2001 Replica AOR1 set. ~ $110 MK18 with 9.5" FDE rail and EOTech 552
More will be added as I weigh the costs and availability.
Also, I was curious...besides AOR1, what would be an acceptable form of "Green" camo? Mainly due to the fact that I would like to be able to blend in with Michigan as best as I can. Though, I don't put a whole lot into blending in, camo is for the sneaky people, which I am most certainly not.
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Post by cqbr on Jul 29, 2011 21:54:20 GMT -5
Green=AOR2
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Post by Thor on Jul 29, 2011 23:18:53 GMT -5
Which, is even more retard hard to find than AOR1.
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Post by cqbr on Jul 30, 2011 0:03:38 GMT -5
Not really. It's becoming way more common than it used to be.
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Post by Dynamo on Jul 30, 2011 0:27:23 GMT -5
Two more things to clear up. Choice of eye wear?
Also, is it still common during this day and age for SEALS to go all crazy with painting their guns? Finding a 9.5" DD rail in FDE is difficult as of right now. If they are big into painting their guns, I may just go with a black one and do a dusting of Khaki over the whole thing.
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Post by Knife on Jul 30, 2011 9:41:55 GMT -5
Woodland is probably acceptable too. Seen a bit stateside but as CQBR said the transition to AOR2 is pushing most of the older Woodland to the side. As for eye wear, chose what works for you. Some of the ESS goggles have been popped up off the top of my head. Goggles really aren't worn nearly as much as they are in airsoft. Painting guns is still fairly common. Here's a DD rail painted from last weeks East Coast reunion. i.imgur.com/GpX2t.jpg
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ctres
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Post by ctres on Jul 30, 2011 22:45:01 GMT -5
If you are going to go for a real lbt 6094 in khaki, you might want to check out ferro tactical. He does stuff in aor1 for the same price as real brand stuff in khaki. I know it isn't exactly the "real deal" but he uses the exact same fabric, and his stuff is just as high of quality.
Most pics of SEALs show them wearing ballistic/shooting sunglasses rather than goggles. Generally they would wear oakley m frames, and probably some ess products such as the ice or crossbow. Since all MIA events require full seal goggles, shooting glasses will not really be an option, and will only really be useful for posting cool-guy pics online. Probably the most common goggles though currently would be the ess profile nvg in tan. These can be had for around $25 or maybe even less on ebay since they are now widely issued throughout the military. Also used are/were bolle x800's in black, but I think that is generally a bit more old school.
As for paint, when it comes to mk18 mod 1 m4s (with DD ris II) you generally see the lower reciever grip, stock, buffer tube, etc. painted in krylon khaki. ( which almost always has a worn look unless it's a fresh paintjob) Sometime the upper reciever is also painted, but usually the fde rail is not. I'm not really sure why this is, but it usually seems that the fde rail and all of the fde accesories are not really painted. (note that this is obvious in the pic that knife linked to) If at all, it often appears to be just a slight dusting. Try to get ahold of an fde version whether it is real or replica, just make sure you don't get one of the really off-color acm ones which can look almost like shiny gold.
As for your choice of camo, if aor2 is not really an option, whether it is expense, rarity, etc. that stops you from getting it, aor1 will be your best choice as far as a perfect impression. However, when it comes to actually playing in a airsoft game, you gotta remember, most players aren't even going to to judging your loadout against real pics. I think that this is the point where you should take some liberty from the "they wear what they want" theory. Despite what is seen in all the pics, real operators use what works for them out in the field. They probably wouldn't wear aor1 a woodland environment, so that is an element that I would say is changable. Knowing that they occasionally wear multicam, there shouldn't problem with you wearing it during gameplay as a SEAL loadout. The main thing is simply that you understand that it is not standard protocol for SEALs, and that when posting it online, people will constantly point it out.
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