|
Post by Knief on Feb 3, 2011 11:52:45 GMT -5
I think you've got a possible solution to a different problem--identifying friendlies in the field. It doesn't stop all of the good players from donning their DCUs and playing on the tan side. It also limits any milsim uniform regulations for games that aren't US vs US, since all of the camo choices are American. Moreover, it leaves out ACU, which is what our Army is currently issued. Sure, it might be hard to place on a team sometimes, but omitting it when your only team options are US based pretty much rapes milsim in the ass. Hard.
[edit] I should clarify. Those teams would be fine for an event, but are way too stifling to become standard or required at every event in the state.
|
|
|
Post by Chaos on Feb 3, 2011 12:05:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah I definitely understand that, I think most changes will be too drastic to become standard.
|
|
|
Post by Overkill on Feb 3, 2011 13:50:26 GMT -5
Time to throw in my 2-cents. A lot of the people in this thread are the more experienced members, and as such are getting an experienced member perspective. I am kind of in the middle a the moment, and I feel I can provide at least some input.
I currently have been throwing together an airsoft team at Kettering. We do not have the ability (yet) to practice regularly (no where to play that is reasonably close to Flint, MI). I have played on the green team every single event I have been to (probably around 15-20) for both REC and Scenario games. Hopefully this perspective can offer some insight.
It seems that so far both sides of the coin have been observed.
1.) Teams need to be divided in such a way to maintain group cohesion, reasonably close experience levels, maintain certain weapon niches, etc.
2.) Green players need to "get better" somehow...
Every time I have been on the green team, we have lacked certain aspects that I see the tan team utilize. I have come to realize that how good your gun is, how amazing your vest is, or how well your camo blends in will only take you so far, maybe 50%, to reaching maximum efficiency. The rest comes from the following:
1.) Communication
Green team always lacks proper comms, either a lack of radios, they don't talk amongst one another concerning their status or other game events, and they usually cannot communicate with hand signals. Comm is always a huge setback for green team it seems, and its becoming more and more apparent to me that a radio is as an important part of your kit as your actual airsoft gun as well as the ability to communicate with your team effectively!
2.) Leadership The green team seems to lack leadership, or at least the ability to lead effectively. They often waver off of objective based play into a more "lone-wolf" style common in most FPS games. While there may be very effective and experienced leaders in play, without comm and without any will to actually follow orders, leadership is worthless. Both players and leaders need to find a medium in which they can work.
3.) Teamwork
We have all seen the green team hunkered down behind buildings, pinned down by tan fire while they become hopelessly out-positioned, are flanked, and systematically destroyed. Many concepts of team based play elude green players. Working together, utilizing scouts, taking a hit for the squad leader, covering your buddies, and trusting your team to watch your back are an extremely important aspect that is often missing on the green team.
4.) Tactics/Strategy
There is more than just getting close enough to shoot at the other guys. Many players seem at a loss when faced with the question of what to do next. How do you advance in a town when under fire? Or a field? In games such as chess or billiards, good players are thinking multiple shots/moves ahead. Questions like what are you going to do, how you are going to do it, and what are you going do after that need to be addressed when making decisions. Also, covering fire, pinning people down, understanding what role both yourself and your weapon type are suited for is pivotal. I die a little inside when I see a guy with an SMG firing at people from the treeline outside the village, 150ft away, while a guy with an M16 attempts to clear a room and gets his gun stuck in the door sideways.
That's about all I can think of so far. The green team just always tends to seem very "green". I do find that when i go to events, I learn very quickly. Not everyone has patience or is stubborn enough to stick around and keep learning though.
I almost want to hold new player workshops on a weekly basis, getting experienced community members to teach the younger members. Charge $15 or something, literally sit people down and give them a presentation. Then split them into teams or groups and have them face off against each other with their new found knowledge, with critique after each "mini-match". You could enforce such conditions as: only communicate with hand signals, you can only move by touching your entire team (I.E. back to back, hand or something), give half the team guns and blindfolds and have the people with sight communicate in order to target enemies and accomplish the objective, etc etc etc. Just anything that could reinforce team based values.
ENDING!
These are just some of the things I have seen concerning the green teams general lack of experience. I feel that we have a huge potential, if we would only be willing to learn as well as have a teacher. Not everyone has access to an interested veteran or a team that plays weekly, but hopefully we can better ourselves and the sport somehow in the long run.
|
|
Master_Oki_Akai
New Member
Minister of Indoctrination
The Urban Medic
Posts: 376
|
Post by Master_Oki_Akai on Feb 3, 2011 14:29:52 GMT -5
We're still talking the training camp idea over. Unfortunatly the idea has met with hostility from players here on MIA who snub their nose at or there is insufficient publications and coverage to reach the ears of a useful number of interested noobs.
|
|
Turk
New Member
Korku Nedir Bilmeyiz
Posts: 289
|
Post by Turk on Feb 3, 2011 14:31:24 GMT -5
Damn, well after reading all of the posts I agree with the general idea here.
Most of what is lacking is just experience in terms of the "noobs". As has been pointed out most who are/have been commenting in this thread are those with more experience, rightly so as most tend to be mods, or on an established team. This is a problem for the younger players because of their individual limitations, and that is just the fact of it. They also are constrained by the cost of the hobby/sport and getting proper equipment. It has been pointed out that woodlands are the easiest BDUs to find, I would agree 100% with that.
Also it has been pointed out that teams sign up because they want to play with each other and get better in terms of skills. (although this might not be the case with everyone) shooting up noobs all day is not the point, I can recall some events I have attended where there was no real teams there in full. Just guys who were part of teams, and that alone, led to them being able to work together and come up with the tactics; and move together, and work out problems as if they had been playing together for a while.
Truth is, although it seems that most want to be on the winning side of things, the only way to get better would be to play against players of the same level, or higher, than yourself (I could be wrong). I for example I don't think of myself as a vet, I have been in the sport for 5 years; I have a blast playing against the Hellfish guys, just because I know they are good, they know they are good, and it makes for a more interesting game all in all.
That being said, I somewhat agree with the point that new players need to get better, but also the there is an old theory that says you learn more by loosing than you do by winning. And it has been said in a way that I could not agree with more already in this thread:
Now, I've been on both sides of the debated team formations before, as most on here have. I've been on green teams full of first timers whom get demolished all day, and I have been on the so called experienced teams, watching them control the field before I even get a shot off. My point is, I've learned to deal with it, something everyone else should do so as well. If you find the situation at hand, such as your team getting demolished, then take charge and do something about. I can't recall how many times I have volunteered to do a sacrifice charge by myself just so others can advance mere feet. Man up, take the ups and downs, and have fun for just being there.
Guts and Glory
The event-planners have so much to get right, and do a good job getting as close to 110% as possible, this part of the game comes down to the individual.
Solutions to this problem are really limited because of many things. What Overkill pointed out, as missing factors, that make new players not so good are correct, I would say, and that just comes with time and learning.
|
|
|
Post by Overkill on Feb 3, 2011 14:41:01 GMT -5
I just want to get guys out there and have an awesome time. I know that if you hosted a training camp thing (and it happened when school was in session here) the whole Kettering group would try and be there.
Meanwhile, I'm just going to keep going to games. Trying to learn more, and take more of a leadership role during the games. I can be reasonably charismatic at times, and I've seen what the green team can do when they get their heads out of their butts. I've seen them start communicating, advancing, and more (for spare moments at a time) but all they need is someone to lead by example.
|
|
|
Post by Kreeper on Mar 20, 2011 15:04:19 GMT -5
I have actually been to a game where the green team was all vets and the tan team was the "noob" team. That was at Area 51 Patriot Movement last year. Tino did an excellent job of evening the playing field by allowing certain special objects to be taken by the tan team. Now this doesn't always work as the main reason it succeeded was by tan's Recon squad calling in a mortar strike on the town. But, my point is just to reinforce the idea that you don't need to handicap a team to even things out. In this case, giving the losing team more opportunities worked.
As for ways to "pre-even" the teams, I still think its mainly decided by the players during sign up. My squad(though we don't consider ourselves anywhere near veteran) are happy with our MARPAT load outs simply because the proverbial tan team gives us a hard challenge and I would hope some vets choose green for the same reason.
|
|