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Post by Koenig on May 17, 2008 21:29:34 GMT -5
The host makes an application to attend the op based on common sense questions/maturity. It might take a while to review every app. if the event is 60+ people, but if you want strict milsim, it would be the easiest way to include us younger folks, without an age limit.
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 8:18:29 GMT -5
I understand the 18+ rule that most of the "Adults" on this board try to enforce. But there are just as many immature "Adults" as there are minors.
MilSim is a wonderful idea, but most of the members here have forgotten (or don't want to remember) what it is. We carry replica weapons and wear all the gear but fail when it comes to acting like anything military. Chaos is more the norm for the majority here.
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Post by Nexus on May 18, 2008 12:06:41 GMT -5
I understand the 18+ rule that most of the "Adults" on this board try to enforce. But there are just as many immature "Adults" as there are minors. MilSim is a wonderful idea, but most of the members here have forgotten (or don't want to remember) what it is. We carry replica weapons and wear all the gear but fail when it comes to acting like anything military. Chaos is more the norm for the majority here. Did you even read the last 4 pages? The discussion here is about making changes for improvement, not sticking with the norm. Your last sentence is the very thing this thread is trying to change.
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 14:17:50 GMT -5
Yup.. I read the last 4 pages of posts... Seems to be the same old stuff that has been going on since I joined in 2002.
Change would great, but very unwelcomed by most..
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Post by Zorak on May 18, 2008 14:20:05 GMT -5
If you have ideas for fixing that, DevilDog, we're all ears. Otherwise, it's not a productive line of discussion.
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 16:27:50 GMT -5
Over the past six years I've made numerous attempts to try and change the status quo. It always seems to fall on deaf ears.
By no means am I the authority on all things airsoft. I never claimed to be. But changes need to be made. The majority of our player base, as well as the consumer base, are under the age of 21. The basic demographic is almost identical to paintball (14-21, male). Everyone wants milsim. However, no one wants to include the major demographic of players. These "kids" don't have anyone mentoring to them. The habits they develop now, will be the same habits they have when they become an "adult" and are able to attend whatever op they want.
First, milsim needs to be taught to those who wish to learn it. GK, MTASC, Asshatz and other teams all have working knowledge on how the military works. There needs to be some tutoring, or mentoring, to the next generation of airsofters. Is it really that hard for the aforementioned teams to set up one weekend a month in the summer to show this generation the ins and outs of correct tactics, CoC and general airsoft safety? Without the proper training, we are headed for a disastrous outcome.
Second, stop discriminating based on age. If a parent thinks their child deserves a airsoft weapon, who are we to disagree? If a parent really wants to push the issue, their is grounds for a suit in civil court.
Finally, we need to work as a community to move to the next level. We need to start looking at other airsoft entities and see how they run their community. Benchmarking others in the same area works in the business world, why not here?
Zorak, I apologize for being non productive. I usually try to put my two cents in logically. I just knew how change used to be viewed around here.
I truly hope that this thread sparks an interest in those of us that have been around the sport for a while. Change is a good thing and we need to always look toward the future of this sport.
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Post by O'Dwah on May 18, 2008 17:58:30 GMT -5
Good points, DevilDog. The idea of having training weekends with the older teams sounds like a great idea, perhaps someone will step forward and do something as such.
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 18:26:14 GMT -5
Keeping the training consistent throughout all of MiA would be paramount in my opinion. If you attended one weekend in Southeast Michigan and then another one in Northern Michigan, the training should continue where the other left off. To make this effective, some sort of committee should be created to ensure the training is consistent. This committee should contain members from each of the locations. That way there is no bias on any of the methods presented or used.
In order for the training weekends to work, I think geographic location will work the best for holding them. Travel time and gas prices are huge factors for people to consider.
I have no problem holding training weekends up in the tip of the mitt. I'm sure I could work with the local player base, and local teams, in an effort to accomplish this. With kids and coaching soccer, I'm pretty booked up until the end of June.
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Post by Zorak on May 18, 2008 18:29:03 GMT -5
Thanks, Devildog, +1 to you. I think there's a chicken and egg issue - are the younger players not milsimers because they haven't been taught, or do we not bother teaching them because that demographic wants paintsoft and teen movies? We'll never know until and unless we try to reach them.
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 18:36:15 GMT -5
And a +1 to you Zorak!
I think it's a combination of both. Most of us older guys sometimes lack the patience when it comes to dealing with today's youth. So teaching them becomes a mute point. The youth of today wants it all. They want the weird movies, paintsoft and some of the things involved in milsim.
I honestly think we need to try and extend the olive branch to them. If we show them how much fun milsim is, we may break a barrier that has been in place for years. This may lead to the teenagers of today acting more responsibly when it comes to airsoft safety.
If we reach 10 kids out of 100 I think it would be worth the time and effort. Education is paramount in this sport. The moment we stop learning, is the moment something tragic happens.
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Post by Nexus on May 18, 2008 18:43:52 GMT -5
Way to go Devildog, I think these are excellent points you bring up. This possibly could turn into a tandem endeavor, both of which would improve game play and safety for all ages. +1 to you...
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 18:48:40 GMT -5
Dude, I would SO be down for a "Training Weekend" up in the tip o' the Mitt!
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Post by DevilDog on May 18, 2008 18:58:38 GMT -5
Safety is the first and foremost concern in training session. How to handle the weapon, how to transport it and safety on the field of play. It not only breeds better players, it also puts everyone on the same page.
Teams are popping up all the time. Some last for years, others last a weekend. What this does is give the prospective team a place to start. They can take the things they learned in the training weekend and encompass them into their own team training. It gives them a sense of ownership and responsibility when bringing new team members aboard. Basically, it standardizes the training for all of MiA.
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Post by Yankee on May 18, 2008 19:22:08 GMT -5
I just want to drop my two cents in here. I will say that I am 16. But I will also say that I have a huge interest in mil-sim as I personally think it would be much more fun than paintsoft. I would be honored to attend a mil-sim training week-end and train under teams such as GK, MTASC, and the Asshats. I am all for this and would be willing to drive as far as needed for the experience. We'll never know until and unless we try to reach them. I will agree with you Zorak. I am here and ready to learn everything I can. As DevilDog said about learning 10 out of every 100. I would be glad to be one of those 10. Whether or not a mil-sim event allows minors or not, that is the hosts call in the end, and If I must wait until I am 18 to attend such events, I will wait paitiently. Eventually I will be able to sttend and I know it will be worth the one and a half year wait. In Conclusion, I am here, and I am ready as well as eager to learn the way of mil-sim. Yankee Additionally +1 to both Devildog and Zorak eventually
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on May 18, 2008 19:24:25 GMT -5
I fully understand the whole "Training" weekend and "events" so to speak, but the thing that gets me is: Why only under 18? Sure there are immature peoples under 18, but that doesn't mean we all are. Also, there are just as many immature players over 18 as there are under.
My next question is this: Say I am a part of MTASC, containing DevilDog, Gypsy, Twitch and myself. DevilDog, Gypsy, and Twitch are all over 18 but I am not. Regardless I am still part of MTASC. What if the entire squad wants to go to a MILSIM (18+) event? You are going to eliminate large portions of teams and bar the community from enjoying themselves and having a good time. Age does NOT determine maturity. If the team, as a whole, wants to hit up the MILSIM op, let them be responsible for the under 18 player. As long as the team said person (under 18) is vouching for him/her to go to the game because they are mature enough, why not trust them?
Now, after giving it a little thought, I see the whole "Training" thing and think: Why train all the peoples under 18 if you are not going to let them use this training in a MILSIM environment? Why waste your time when you could be playing MILSIM with all your 18+ friends? People, you have to see that not all players under 18 are immature, but those are the only ones under 18 that you pick out and determine what the whole crowd is like.
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