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Post by Mosin on May 12, 2008 7:52:19 GMT -5
Well.. It seems like we've all got some good ideas to bring to the table here. Which makes me sort of giddy if you will, for the better season this year.
Like me personally vouching to step up the MilSim aspect, I purchased a radio, and as Livonia's spotter, and sometimes lone sniper.. I plan on using that radio to keep intel and recon good where I can see.
But the fact all comes down to this: You can have the best ideas in the world, but without proper encouragement, and example.. No one will follow it. People who read this, and take it serious.. need to set an example for those who don't quite know. Because without leadership in this, the younger (Younger being a reletive term.. More so inexperienced) crowd will just find themselves doing exactly what they do every game.. Shooting M4's with box mags.. hiding behind things and not moving, then complaining during the downtime and making up excuses for why they are so god aweful.
What we really need to do though, is set this all in stone. The field owners need to enforce it, and the true enthousiasts(Sp?) need to set examples and encourage it.
I for one am completely down for setting examples for all the young aspiring Scout/Sniper teams out there. I also plan to try and take on roles of a Squad Leader/Team Commander more often if I can at games I attend, so that I can keep that sort of realism going.
Honestly, I have no problem putting down my Maruzen and picking up a TM M4 or something and going assault for a few games, just to lead a group of good guys into combat or to accomplish an objective.
But this was the radio thing I was talking about: Channel 1 (Channels in this being just a reletive thing.. You can switch as needed) : Team Commander and Squad Leaders are on this one, the Team commander gives seperate orders to different squad leaders.. Pending on what devision they are.. This needs to be written down, for example.. Team RAGE is Alpha Squad, Team SFOD is Bravo, and so on..
Channel 2-8: Different squads are on this one, squad members communicate amongst eachother, squad leader has a radioman nearby on this channel for communications and orders, or he switches to it to give out specific orders, only switching back to the commander channel every once in a while.. (Maybe while he's not on the commander channel, he assigns someone to be, and then switch to his channel and alert him when he's needed?)
This could help greatly with coordination, and in my opinion.. Make the game a lot harder.
Field owners also need to get maps of their field, print them out big, lay them on a table, and buy little 1/64th GI Joes or something for the team commanders/high officers to plan attacks for.. Hell, even just a sandbox and a bucket of water would suffice.
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Post by operatordoc01 on May 12, 2008 8:34:21 GMT -5
In the lines of what Mosin is saying here on the Radio, which I do agree on. I can tell you how many times I have heard that Alert tone form through my head set when I am getting ready to try and talk with members of another Squad. Now what I am about to post comes from the Battle of Breedland for their radio chatter, and I like the way it is set up. Ch. 1 is more of a admin channel where you will get in game orders and such.
Here is how Comm will be setup for out Team, we have channels 2,3,4,and 5
Command channel: 2 This is for any and all comm between command and Platoon Leaders
Platoon Leader Channel: 3 This is for and all comm between Platoon Leaders and their respective Squad Leaders
1st Platoon Squad channel: 4 This is for all comm between the Squads of 1st Platoon.
2nd Platoon Squad Channel: 5 This is for all comm between the Squads of 2nd Platoon
As you can not to complicated and it works.
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Post by Tex on May 12, 2008 9:06:18 GMT -5
I like your idea Mosin, but I know that changing between channels will not happen in the middle of a battle, but I like the idea of a radio man in order to communicate with the rest of the squad, but, honestly, if your squad mates cannot be ordered via hand signals, there's a problem there. You stick together in a squad, none of this lone wolf renegade stuff, unless ordered to do so by the leader of your squad.
But then again, I don't think this needs to be set in stone. The individual(s) hosting the OP should be able to set their own rules based on their OP.
The only thing I think that should for sure happen is the radio communication between a commander and squad leaders so that objectives can be updated that way. And it will require on the fly strategizing which may win or lose the battle.
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Post by Mosin on May 12, 2008 9:19:36 GMT -5
Right, let me also add that there be another channel for Squad Leaders to communicate with eachother, to coordinate anything off the record.
Also, your squad might be close enough for hand signals, but I don't think they should always be. Having a group of 6-7 guys in such a confined area so that they can read hand signals (25-30 yards) is cruise control for allowing the enemy to drop all 6-7 in a row, should they get the jump on you.
Anyways.. I was just sorta snowballing that radio idea, it could be branched off. But what we need is people that can follow it, as well as have honest people not channel surf (I've experienced catching a channel surfer first hand.. Needless to say he knows who he is and I'm glad that I haven't seen him at any other games as of late).
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Post by Relarz on May 12, 2008 10:49:07 GMT -5
Also realize, as you openly discuss this stuff, you open either side up to electronic warfare.
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Post by Zorak on May 12, 2008 11:21:43 GMT -5
Eh, that's usually banned by the rules and enforced by the honor system. The squad radio man needs to have two radios. There's no other way to do the job effectively. Squad channels can be a big help in letting squads regroup when they get seperated. People always get seperated, by trips to respawn if nothing else. I don't think you need a command channel and a squad leader channel. Even a seperate channel for platoon leaders can be iffy. We only have 22 channels to work with, max, and 7 of those are wimpy FRS-only channels. Assuming you reserve a freq for the event organizers and allocate one command channel per team, you're left with a theoretical max of 9 squad channels. If you're using platoon channels too, you can have 3 platoons of 2 squads each, or 2 platoons with 3 or 4 squads each. If you go beyond those numbers, you have multiple squads on the same frequency, and accountability goes out the window. My ideas on frequency allocation are on my radio page.
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Post by Nexus on May 12, 2008 17:25:25 GMT -5
I am all for the organization of squads/platoons, and a clear command structure, in conjunction with proper experienced leaders, and commanders. More than shiny props and fancy story lines, this element is most coveted, and I feel, would really bring the game onto a higher level. In support of the command structure, as mentioned, are the radios. If you could get a group of guys to not channel surf, hit those DARNED call buttons, and not say anything into their radios except critical information... Then halfway though the day I could stop tossing mine in my trunk. These ideas are great, and I am SO incredibly glad that others are getting tired of the runnin-and-gunnin that seems to take place every time we gather for an "op". I see no problem with every single person on the field having a radio, while also noting that this is hardly necessary. "Grunts", or "privates" if you will, should rarely speak if ever, and should focus rather on listening too and obeying orders. Since this is airsoft, and as someone noted, using said radio to relocate your squad would be ideal, so everyone having one might not be a bad idea. However, most of the dialog should occur above the heads of the grunts in the command chain. This would make radio communication efficient and worth while. I feel like I am preaching to the choir on this, as I feel most everyone is on the same page and sees the greater potential for some of the things we already use in paintsoft, if we just use them properly. I am incredibly excited about the discussion taking place in here, and I can't wait to see the changes to our local gaming experience. I pray it occurs soon.
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Post by Ghast on May 12, 2008 17:49:39 GMT -5
I'm surprised as few people obey orders as they do. I love taking orders, it makes it so I don't have to think.
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Post by theactionman on May 12, 2008 18:33:27 GMT -5
I'm surprised as few people obey orders as they do. I love taking orders, it makes it so I don't have to think. Thats only because we Prykas have ordering you around so long...
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Bakker
New Member
-WindMaster-
Posts: 454
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Post by Bakker on May 12, 2008 19:51:59 GMT -5
I'm really glad this thread was set up. I have been craving for some MILSIM type events. The military simulation aspect of airsoft is pretty much what has me hooked to the game/hobby. I have had much more fun playing games with 8 members of my team on a large plot of land then I have had playing at almost any OP that I have been to so far. Getting 50 kills in an hour wouldn't be even close to as satisfying as crawling across miles of land and only getting a few kills in a whole day. I can't even imagine the stealth, coordination, and teamwork involved in a large scale MILSIM event. As far as the 18+ age limit goes for attending events, I would only hope to see a few exceptions but this is only because I am still 17 although honestly, I wouldn't mind waiting until I am 18. If there is an 18+ age limit with exceptions then soon there will be a handful of inexperienced/younger players attending the games as well. I would only hope for an 18+ age limit once I reach 18 and I totally understand that the older generation of players would love to see only mature players at the events they attend. I could just go rambling on about how I really want to play at MILSIM events even though I am under 18 but when exceptions start getting handed out then the whole 18+ age limit gets blown out the window. I know plenty of mature players under the age of 18 but for every mature player, there's one that is equally immature.
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Post by Flipper on May 14, 2008 7:38:38 GMT -5
I love the discussion going on here, and I agree with the milsim statements made here. I would take vacation time at work to travel to a true milsim event. That said now here is my two cents.
I like the idea of having squads and a chain of command. The selection process could be held just like a job interview. If a person is interrested in becoming a member in the chain of command they should have to submit a resume. I know this sounds goofy but, if you do this only serious people will apply. Most people will not take time out of their day to put together an airsoft resume to get a position that offers no pay and lasts one day (or two).
Just a thought.
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Post by Munin on May 14, 2008 15:19:34 GMT -5
I essentially had to exactly that to be a field commander for the first two "Blind Fury" games that the Strikers put on. They asked for qualifications and were looking for people who had both some experience with objective-oriented MilSim and were willing to essentially give up their own trigger-time to herd cats.
It was an interesting experience, and I had a lot of fun doing it. But I've got to say, it's a pretty thankless task. And unless you have squad commanders you can trust (which I did, thankfully), it's just setting yourself up for frustration.
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Alto
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Alto on May 16, 2008 15:05:47 GMT -5
Maybe some sort of certification process for everyone that wants to be there. If the powers that be (whoever that is) decides that the person is not mature enough (regardless of age), they don't get certified...
As for "four foot fourteen year olds", I'm 15 and 6'7''...
I would love to get into milsim, but I definitely understand why you wish there to be a certain limit - it makes perfect sense.
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Post by Talisman on May 16, 2008 20:55:20 GMT -5
15 and 6'7"? What the fuck?
No offense, but DAMN man, you need to STOP eating your wheaties!
It is, however, nice to hear someone under 18 agree on that point. You'd be the exact type that would make the cut. Most of the kiddies that understand the reasoning behind that decision are the ones that are mature enough to not need to worry about it, or maybe not worry about it as much.
As far as the certification for everyone, I doubt that would work. Speaking from experience (and my ops have never been real.... good...) it's a bitch to put a game together period, esp. if you've got work/school, girlfriend, friends, and other hobbies. I can't imagine having to look over 40-80+ "applications" for a milsim op. Unless it was a huge op, something that would require specific people to pull off, and each person would be able to make it worth the time/pain in the ass that it would require.
I would much prefer invite-only games. I've thought about that, and I believe I could throw together enough players that I know are "cool" to have an invite-only game. Then again, kinda defeats the purpose of MiA, period. Other'n to flaunt the thread "Op:Elite - Invite only, we're having a good time and you can't come! Nyah!".
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on May 16, 2008 21:00:15 GMT -5
I myself would like to try milsim as well. I agree totally with you PFC Frost, and Talisman as well. I would love to hit a milsim op but I understand all your 18 and over business as well. Maybe could there be something worked out for 16+ milsim? My only question would be: How in the world would this "certification" work? And how would you know who got certified and who didn't?
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