Grunt22
New Member
TM M16A2, KWC 1911, KWC P226, HFC M16A1
Posts: 338
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Post by Grunt22 on Aug 26, 2002 20:48:37 GMT -5
Thanks
Really appreciate all the help! (I'll look into those sites)
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Post by Andy on Aug 26, 2002 20:56:48 GMT -5
Thats why were here.
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Post by Minky on Aug 26, 2002 21:03:26 GMT -5
Hey Grunt, welcome aboard! Pretty much all the American airsoft retailers use one of the major Hong Kong sellers for a supplier, so if you see something you want from an overseas site you can almost always have a US dealer special order it for you. --------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the KSC Glock series' trademarks, you're right fofuz the G17 and every model before they introduced the G26 bears full Glock trades. Starting with the G26 though, all their newly released Glock models (G19, G26C)bear a stylized G and other non-copyrighted markings. Supposedly KSC was under pressure by Glock themselves to stop producing guns with the Glock trademark... somehow they still seem to be able to produce their older models with the trademarks though, so who knows what actually happened.
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Post by DevilDog on Aug 26, 2002 21:52:56 GMT -5
Grunt, Most of the west coast stores won't ship to Michigan either. Not sure why... I do beleive it has a lot to do with our guns laws in this state. I've talked to a retailer in CA and he wouldn't ship here at all. All those links (that were given to you earlier) ship to MI... Try this one to: www.747imports.comNot bad pricing, and they have adecent inventory.
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Post by frostee on Aug 27, 2002 6:06:29 GMT -5
Hi Grunt, I got my G19 from Redwolf in HK and they will ship to Michigan no problems. However, Redwolf was extremely slow in processing my order and shipping. I ended up waiting for over 2 months on an item that was supposedly in stock. In the mean time I had ordered and received a bunch of stuff from Airsoft Extreme (www.airsoftextreme.com) in California and Airsoft Atlanta in Georgia.
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blade
New Member
Posts: 135
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Post by blade on Aug 27, 2002 7:57:19 GMT -5
Guys, www.airsofttoys.com is also shipping to Michigan. So if you can get want you need from Mike, just drop us a line, we will do our best. As far as seizure, Customs will finally release all parts and accessories but not the gun, they say the trademarks do not comply with US laws. We already got few boxes but the guns are still coming. For your reference, look this track 789307845 on www.tnt.com , this is exactly what happen when you get held/seized ;D WGC already changed their attitude about shipment and unfortunately for all customers, it seems that the tendancy in HK will be to full destroy trademarks, as well as putty over it. For all players, it doesn't matter. For collectors though, it's different story. I really hope guys you understant that all US/HK company need to stay together about this, if you or your supplier try to bend the rule by getting full trademarks or no orange flash hider, you are just risking the life of airsoft in US. Let keep the things going like it is and may be in the future, customs will be more relax. Again though, it's not their fault, it's just the law. Talking about law, did you know that few retailers got letters from Colt and wear threathen of lawsuit and fines over 25k$ That's why it's important for us to keep the trademark far from our guns Blade www.airsofttoys.com
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Post by DevilDog on Aug 27, 2002 8:57:51 GMT -5
what happened to your shipment sucks!!!! Hopefully you get it eventually!! I 2nd what Blade has said! You may want the Marking on the gun, but is is really worth sacrificing this sport entirely?
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Post by Viking on Aug 27, 2002 9:29:24 GMT -5
Blade (or Francois?)
Does HK’s decision on full trades elimination also stand true to their accessories and after market parts? Are we still going to be able to buy metal slides and bodies with accurate trades on them?
Boy this really makes me sad that I sold all those guns recently, if the full trade destroy does seem like the path that HK will take then all existing guns over time will be come highly sought after and worth quite a bit more. Kinda like pre-ban equipment. Bigmack, you will give me all those AEGs I have sold to you back! Hehe.
-V I K I N G SEMTEX Operative[/color]
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blade
New Member
Posts: 135
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Post by blade on Aug 27, 2002 9:34:57 GMT -5
Viking,
As of right now, I have no idea which way HK retailer will do that. Is the quality of the job will be good? I hope.
Are they gonna do the same for parts? no clue.
One thing is sure is they are tired too loose few thousands dollars every months and I'm still wondering why they didn't stop doing business with US....I know though that some HK retailers won't be responsible anymore for the seizure so if you get seized, you loose, period.
So again, I would rather prefer to loose trademark than the whole airsoft and honestly, with the kind of shape we receive used guns, I don't think trademarks will make the gun looks better...I have nothing else to say
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Post by SickPointe on Aug 27, 2002 16:04:54 GMT -5
Hey Blade a few weeks ago, I placed an order for a couple items, and one was special order. They werent guns but holsters. One was a Black, Right sided, BlackHawk! Universal drop down holster, and that was on special order. Any news on when those will be coming in? This was about 3 weeks ago. If you need more info I'll e-mail you.
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WTS-Mike
New Member
Preachah Man
Former Owner of Wolverine Tactical Supply and general all around nice guy
Posts: 577
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Post by WTS-Mike on Aug 27, 2002 21:46:09 GMT -5
Hey guys, (andy)
Don't feel bad if I don't have something in stock, I would get it from Blade too, I know how it is to want something "like yesterday".
we(retailers) each have our own niche, and thats cool, Blade seems to be in the same boat in promoting airsoft and keeping the future of airsoft looking bright! So I support him in that....
As far as parts with trades, there is no difference between that and a gun, they may not catch it for a while, but it is still a trademark violation.
Oh, and the only reason your glock came thru OK was customs never inspected it. If it had been inspected it would have noted that on the tracking (Consignment held for inspection by customs)
The guns that had orange paint violations, are probably going to be shipped back to WGC this week to be "corrected" (this per the ISET team member I spoke with on the phone) He also made it abundantly clear, that as much as he might want to help me get the trademarked ones sent back, he could NOT as this was an actual Legal Violation (I forget the exact terminology)
Mike out!
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Post by Viking on Aug 27, 2002 23:52:55 GMT -5
I guess when ordering from WGC we really cant complain about customs. When you order is brought to your attention then and there that the guns with trades intact if seized will not be refunded. I find that completely fair and honest. However the paint color issue I am not educated enough on but if customs has not made aware the color code of the paint that is required for importation to WGC then they might have a case against customs. However if WGC was made aware of such paint regulations and still painted the guns with the other paint for whatever reason, cheaper paint… easier to remove… what ever, then WGC may owe a lot of retailers and personal buyers a few pennies. But like I said I’m not educated about this and I am sure you retailer people know more then you could want on the issue, just composing what I was thinking ATM.
Brings me to the following: Are trades laws an import law foreboding any trades at all? Or is it a law to help protect firearm manufactures trademarks? If so then if a company buys the legal right to bare a gun manufactures trades on their products then can they be seized legally?
Don’t know about you guys but I wouldn’t mind seeing a new airsoft manufacture popping up in the states, a company that focuses on realism as well as improving over a design that’s already been constructed by TM. Don’t need any more companies like Classic Army out there; we need more Tokyo Marui but better.
-V I K I N G SEMTEX Operative[/color]
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WTS-Mike
New Member
Preachah Man
Former Owner of Wolverine Tactical Supply and general all around nice guy
Posts: 577
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Post by WTS-Mike on Aug 28, 2002 8:57:09 GMT -5
Well WGC has no "case" they actually include a copy of the law (which list the color # 12189 in the law) with every shipment, so they have no excuse in that area, and yes I think it was done because it was easier to remove (on a metal tip, just spray it with carb choke cleaner and it runs off like water! DO NOT DO THIS WITH PLASTIC PARTS!!!) AS far as the trades, it is BOTH, an import law, that is made to protect our US companies from outside copies with thier name on it. like if I owned a company in Hong Kong that made Soda and I make all my cans to look like Coca Cola, import them and start taking thier market share because I can sell them cheaper, etc.. Now it wouldn't happen the sme with Colt's guns because that style of gun can't be imported due to import bans on that style particularly, but its the principle and the law. Now IF you could get license on the trademark and thats a big IF, then yes there would be no problem getting them in the country (you would need to have the licenseing agreement probably in super large bold print in the first few shipments, but you could do it.) However, now that colts name is on it(or HK or whoever) then they are gonna want some $$ and you are prolly talking more money than you would ever want to pay for an airsoft gun. Ok Viking, you and semtex pool your money buy some injection molding equipment and begin production of Viking airsoft guns with your own little trademark (like in you old sig).............after about a year of selling the viking model 300 for $260 suddenly you get wind from the ASP boards that you can buy the viking model 300 for $180 at suchandsuchairsoft.com. You check into it and find that WGC is importing a replica of your gun with YOUR TRADEMARK ON IT........and you are LOSING ALMOST ALL YOUR SALES in a matter of weeks..........and you just took out a loan on that new bigger better Injection molding machine and hired newman full time with benefits, to run it for ya! (he has gotten over the leg shooting incident by then ) Now I know that colt isn't losing sales to airsoft guns, but america has always been big on PRINCIPLE, the law is made to protect US companies from just this sort of "competition") I actually thought about the new company Idea, but Liability for BB type guns is HUGE........remember "you'll shoot your eye out!!" It is a whole different game when YOU manufacture something as to when you just sell it. (think about all those parents who got money becasue a kid choked on a small part of a toy, etc..."product liability") Don't get me wrong I would love to see colt or some other U.S. company start making replicas in airsoft, but with the legal climate in the US, I think it will be pretty cost prohibitive. Ok, I could ramble on for hours, but I think you get my point
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blade
New Member
Posts: 135
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Post by blade on Aug 28, 2002 10:32:05 GMT -5
WTS,
Couldn't say better ;D
People take airsoft as granted, unfortunately, it is not. In the future, people should start to think what they can really get rid of to make sure airsoft will last. Personnally, I would like to see fake trademarks, so no more problems anymore. The orange plastic flash hider is not a bad idea either.
Sickpointe, Yes I do know your order. As far as I know BlackHawk were short for those holster and they said they should be available in the next weeks so since we ordered, they should be either ready to be shipped or just about to.
I'll call them and will let you know later today.
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Post by Bigmack on Aug 28, 2002 13:36:41 GMT -5
on the G26C... around 3 mags of BB's per gas charge on semi-auto. (60-65)
around 2 mags per charge on full auto. (40-45)
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