YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 17, 2012 9:07:05 GMT -5
Hey folks... I'm a total n00b still, so this might be common knowledge, but wanted to discuss. I picked up a tapco buffer tube end plate sling mount over the weekend for a real steel AR. When I went to attach it, I found that the real steel AR tool would not fit correctly and the diameter this is bigger than my buffer tube. I.E. My VFC buffer tube is like a few millimeters smaller than a real M4 buffer tube. My question is why? Do they do that so people dont try to use Airsoft Equipment on the real deal? when it was all said and done, I torqued it down and feel that it's not going to move, but still wish it was a true fit. Likewise, it means I need a special AR Wrench for airsoft since the real steel one doesnt fit? (The center tab wont lock in correctly due to it not being spec.) What's the deal?  Edit: Manufacturer's Listing |
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 17, 2012 9:42:00 GMT -5
Buffer tubes come in two sizes:
Commercial and Mil-spec.
AEGs tend to be either one size or the other, but I can't for the life of me remember which.
Some AEG manufacturers, like Ares, use a different size buffer tube than most other AEGs, IIRC.
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Post by Tank on Sept 17, 2012 10:05:04 GMT -5
Buffer tubes come in two sizes: Commercial and Mil-spec. AEGs tend to be either one size or the other, but I can't for the life of me remember which. Some AEG manufacturers, like Ares, use a different size buffer tube than most other AEGs, IIRC. Well if the real steel receiver end plate he got was too large, then airsoft receiver extensions must be the commercial size. Commercial is smaller than milspec. Edit: Please ignore ^ I got smaller diameter tube mixed up with stronger cut threading. Thanks Gimpalong for correcting me. |
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 17, 2012 10:10:58 GMT -5
I prefer not to speculate on what I don't know with certainty, but Google got me this:  and from a different source:  The question remains: which size do most AEGs use? I know someone on this forum has the answer. |
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 17, 2012 10:23:21 GMT -5
The threads are same on commercial vs milspec... The difference (I dont remember which) is that on one, the threads are threaded into the tube and the other they are threaded off of the tube. So the tubes will be different sizes but the threading is the same.
Since the receiver fits on the threading or a standard AR, it will fit both commercial and milspec. (My little brother is a pretty hard core AR hobbiest and we were comparing my VFC 416 AEG to his real M4. It really showed of how much of a 'toy' the airsoft gun is in terms of quality, albeit a really expensive and nice toy, it's simply no where close to precision as a real AR (obviously) but this is where I guess the difference is made up by those $1500 stock airsoft guns).
I found my VFC HK416 to have smaller threads than the real deal and wondered if that's VFC or what. I mean the cap on the tube the screws down to hold the end plate on, so it's obviously correct for the gun, but I was kind of shocked to see it was different than real life spec. Which means I kind of need the VFC/Umarex AR tool which is like 1-2 mm different than a real life one?
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Post by Tank on Sept 17, 2012 11:03:40 GMT -5
The threads are same on commercial vs milspec... The difference (I dont remember which) is that on one, the threads are threaded into the tube and the other they are threaded off of the tube. So the tubes will be different sizes but the threading is the same. Since the receiver fits on the threading or a standard AR, it will fit both commercial and milspec. (My little brother is a pretty hard core AR hobbiest and we were comparing my VFC 416 AEG to his real M4. It really showed of how much of a 'toy' the airsoft gun is in terms of quality, albeit a really expensive and nice toy, it's simply no where close to precision as a real AR (obviously) but this is where I guess the difference is made up by those $1500 stock airsoft guns). I found my VFC HK416 to have smaller threads than the real deal and wondered if that's VFC or what. I mean the cap on the tube the screws down to hold the end plate on, so it's obviously correct for the gun, but I was kind of shocked to see it was different than real life spec. Which means I kind of need the VFC/Umarex AR tool which is like 1-2 mm different than a real life one? Assuming that the airsoft receiver extension attaches to the receiver the same way the RS does, that cap you are referring to is called a castle nut. I haven't actually taken that apart on my airsoft gun yet. I would try my wrench on my KWA castle nut tonight, but X is borrowing it right now for his RS AR. When I get it back from him, I'll check it out. Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards |
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Post by X on Sept 17, 2012 11:37:52 GMT -5
Classic Army Buffer tube appears to be Mil-spec. Castle nut is non-functioning. As for the threads KWA (and my old TM SR-16) does not thread the tube into the receiver. The tube is simply held on by a screw that is screwed into the spring guide. Photo of Mil-Spec CTR on CA M15 tube and Classic Army M15 Crane stock on the my RS AR-15 I also tried the LE stock that came with the KWA and it fits snug over my RS tube.  www.riflegear.com/p-273-magpul-ctr-carbine-mil-spec-complete-assembly.aspxwww.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_141&products_id=923To answer the OP's question... It's seems to be that VFC went with a commercial sized tube. Why they choose this is anyone's guess. Cost savings, compatibility with commercial stocks, who knows. I don't really understand why there are two standard sizes to begin with. Someone posted this on calguns.net www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=153618As to why the airsoft gun doesn't meet spec is pretty much for the same reasons. I'm sure they are not intentionally making it so you can't interchange parts. Maybe if the FCG on an airsoft gun was anything like an RS one you might see that, but it isn't. I would suspect that most of these decisions are based on reducing the cost to manufacture the gun. Also keep in mind that having a gearbox inside the receiver could force them to make design changes (although that doesn't really pertain to your issue). Maybe someone should make a sticky that has user compatibility reports of Mil-spec vs Commercial stocks on AEGs. |
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 17, 2012 12:08:05 GMT -5
My VFC buffer tube is also held on by a screw in the tube. Castle Nut (thank you, I couldnt recall the part name) is really just going to snug down and hold the slightly oversized end plate with sling attachment on, so I dont really forsee any issues from it, even if it came slightly loose. Was just annoyed the AR tools wasnt a direct fit for it, but I got it tight enough.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Sept 17, 2012 12:34:56 GMT -5
I've heard the KWA's buffer tubes are of milspec-diameter, is this true? Because I've tried many other airsoft guns' retractable stocks on mine and they're all too tight, which makes no sense.
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Post by X on Sept 17, 2012 13:14:39 GMT -5
I've heard the KWA's buffer tubes are of milspec-diameter, is this true? Because I've tried many other airsoft guns' retractable stocks on mine and they're all too tight, which makes no sense. The other stocks are just garbage. That's my only theory. Tank and I could take a micrometer to it tomorrow I suppose. Tank do you want to bring your gun in to work? My buffer tube is MIA. I also tried the LE stock that came with the KWA and it fits snug over my RS tube. |
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Sept 17, 2012 14:12:43 GMT -5
I'm just worried I'll end up spending a butt load of money on a Magpul stock just to find it doesn't fit. And there's also the fact that on the receiver extension there are small sections at the base of the tube that are thicker than the rest, and that makes it even more difficult to fit different buffer tubes on it.
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Post by X on Sept 17, 2012 14:30:56 GMT -5
I love how Magpul is expensive in airsoft and is the budget brand in RS.
You should the good with the Milspec Magpul stuff.
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Post by Tank on Sept 17, 2012 16:26:35 GMT -5
I'll bring my KWA in tomorrow. We can do whatever you are wanting to try then.
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Post by X on Sept 18, 2012 14:29:17 GMT -5
According to Tank's testing it appears to be that the KWA Buffer tube size is 1.138". Which is .010 smaller than Milspec. This means that it is smaller than both milspec and commercial. Which would explain why the KWA LE stock was very tight on my RS milspec buffer tube.
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 18, 2012 14:43:09 GMT -5
I want to say that is what I think I'm seeing with the VFC buffer tube as well.
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